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AirAcceleration/Bhop kick without direct warning?

Discussion in CS:S Zombie Escape started by Arden, Dec 1, 2012

  1. May 6, 2012
    I see people each day getting kicked for [Bhop]
    They relog and are SUPER ANGRY and just start yelling WTF I wasn't bhopping, what kind of crap is this...

    Let me just clarify the point of this thread...

    1-There the obvious bhopping which is a script that make you rotate while jumping which gain insane speed.
    2-There the least obvious method which is after being pushed forward, you just jump without any rotation.
    3-There the even least obvious which is in a slope, 1 jump that cause on landing a push forward.
    4-There also 2-3 consecutive jump without any rotation done, which also can lead to kick.

    Now the issue is that admin post a generic message to everyone

    Since bhop is a vague term, a lot of player get kicked and admin claim to have warned them using that generic message.
    I believe that this generic message should only be allowed to kick player using the type #1- bhop script or jumping while rotating.

    I believe that any other form of bhopping, the player should get a warning with he's name written in it once in he's life before he get kicked, informing him that this is considered bhopping and to not do it again or it a kick then ban.

    Subdelta got kicked earlier and he was angry and he believed it wasn't bhopping.
    I didn't see what he did, but I highly believe it wasn't a bhop script but a gray zone air acceleration that fall under #2-4
    I hate it when people get kicked without warning or by a generic warning...

    Bhop is to vague as a term to be used as a warning.
    If you are to accept a lot of stuff and consider them all as bhop, you shouldn't be allowed generic message.
    Right now, I feel it like the admin saying <do not do anything illegal> and they he kick players while claiming their warning was <do not do anything illegal> [exaggeration].

    I want that the 3 step: Warning, kick, ban to be reinforced and that warning be used more seriously.
    Even on donator, if you are an admin and you already gave a warning to the donator, then it fine, kick/ban.
    Everyone should get the warning, there a lot of admin that kick for what they believe to be a valid reason, but often what they believe to be valid isn't necessarily valid.

    A no bhop warning should ONLY include warning to those jumping like bhopper and not include air acceleration from jumping in slope, after getting pushed forward just jumping strait. All the other type of air acceleration speed should be dealt with differently and give specific warning.

    If admin can type: /kick playername
    he should be able to type a warning to that player name before the kick.
    It can even be a private message warning to the player, doesn't need to be public for everyone to judge.
    But I firmly believe that admin are <abusing> the no bhop rule and kicking player that aren't even aware that what they are doing is considered bhopping.

    Even freezing the player for 3 seconds would be better then kicking him as a warning.
    I find kicking to be excessive and even more on map like Elder scroll where there level and you loose all your level because of a kick where player doing it, don't believe it illegal.
    Arden, Dec 1, 2012 Last edited by Arden, Dec 1, 2012
  2. Oct 29, 2010
    I hate ZE.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Jun 15, 2012
      pretty sure all the regulars will agree that the rule is way to strict atm, can't believe they're punishing for no bhop and just speed in air now lol. admins will kick bhoppers on mako but i have never seen an admin punish someone for not shooting bahamut / similar griefing, other than null, which detriments the team alot more.
    • Feb 21, 2007
      I'm not sure what changed here...bhop is bhop and punishable. I dont see how admins are punishing players for anything else.

      Tho I do agree with trying to warn ppl multiple diff ways before kicking from a map that requires cumulative points.
    • May 14, 2012
      rule is not to strict. people are just dumb about it. i went 6 months without bhopping as an admin it is not hard to just not jump. i dont know what peoples problem is.

      bhoppers should be kicked no matter what type of bhopping it is.
    • May 6, 2012
      I don't care that it too strict, all I care about is that the player had a chance to know that what he's doing is illegal before he get kicked.

      Jumping in slope == bhopping... everyone can do it, so why is it considered unfair?
      Shouldn't strafe running and strafe climbing ladder be illegal too?
      I feel that people strafe running and mainly those strafe climbing ladder get WAY unfair speed acceleration then those jumping in slope.

      Then bhop kick should ONLY be toward those bhopping by using rotation air acceleration...
      I hate how jumping strait get you kicked under bhopping rule.
      You can't claim it unfair advantage, everyone can jump strait, just press the jump key over and over...

      Bhopping is a different story, you need the script or be REALLY good (like MZez).
      That why it considered illegal, and I somewhat accept that knowledge, but there too much stuff and reason people are getting kicked for bhopping.
      I feel bhopping is to vague and admin need to give out specific warning once before giving a kick.

      It not all admin, but some admin kick player for any type of air acceleration without warning claiming that you bhopped and you're a donator thus you knew, or i said no bhop, you did so BB.
      I do understand that a bhop script which has rotation in each jump to be illegal, but LOTS of players get kick and they don't use a bhop script or rotate while jumping, just get air acceleration and it vague.
    • May 14, 2012
      bhopping does give an unfair advantage. people shouldnt be required to bhop just to get to the end of the damn map(which is what would happen if bhopping was allowed.. never will be).

      and even air acceleration gives an unfair advantage. it would make things so unbalanced if it was ever allowed.
    • Jun 18, 2012
      I both agree and disagree with you. Lets start off with the stuff I agree on first :wink:

      I completely agree with you that admins shouldn't put a warning on round start and then just kick everyone who crosses the rule, HOWEVER, the times when admins do this is ussually on mako/paranoid etc. (often played maps, which fill up the servers) and you can't really expect 1 or 2 admins to monitor 64 players and type a warning to all of them. Something admins do more often lately, which I like better, is putting a message a few seconds before the part where you can BHop starts. Everyone notices so no excuses on that part.

      I also agree with you that people should only be kicked when BHOPPING and not for example in the tunnel of paranoid, on which we had a thread not to long ago. If I'm right the conclusion of that thread was, that it's allowed to accelerate in these places but not to BHop once you get out of them (the teleport on paranoid after the tunnel).

      Things I disagree on. Well simple:

      After playing here for about 1,5 year it's easy to not get kicked for BHopping. How? Simply don't try to jump multiple times in a row how all those others qqing assholes do which come back qqing that they don't BHop. Half of the BHoppers are aware of what they're doing and that it's punishable. The fact that some admins even take the time to warn the same trolls over and over after multiple kicks, instead of banning them after 3 weeks right away is only something I admire. To me it's simple, jump more than once and you gain the danger of being kicked/warned/banned.

      TL DR; Admins cant monitor 64 people at a time, and at spots where the map allows you to gain speed it's allowed. Besides that it's simple not to BHop by simply jumping once instead of being a retard and going for it. The fact that people can't realize they shouldn't BHop when the round before 3 people got kicked for it doesn't mean PF has to spell it out for them.

      I think I've never even been kicked for BHop before eventhough it sometimes happens when you don't pay attention. Or when you're just used to a certain line. (I always let myself drop down on the ''short'' ladder down the pipes on mako, and jump after that. That's only one jump and it makes me gain a little more speed.)

      EDIT1: You can strafe ladders cause there isn't a magic ladder which takes you to the end of a map. BHoppers could just jump ahead, trigger teles and get everyone killed. Which BTW is griefing -> kick/ban.
    • Oct 29, 2010
      I do agree that if a player is not blatantly bhopping, the blanket warning should not suffice.

      While I understand that ZE is a fickle bitch and needs constant watching, I wish some of our admins played more instead of sitting in spec, you're bound to find trouble when all you're ever doing is looking for it.
      • Agree Agree x 2
      • Winner Winner x 1
      • Jun 18, 2012
        Maybe cause PF should IMO be more picky about certain admins. It's pretty retarded to kick a BHopper while people are griefing materias like ultima multiples times in a row and you don't even warn them about it. (Not saying that I'd do better just something that caught my eye.)
      • May 14, 2012
        its not that easy to find a person that griefed with a materia without seeing the person with the materia before they used it. if you were ever an admin you would understand. and you cant just go around assuming a certain person griefed with it which most people do. and when a materia is used to grief it is almost always unexpected which makes it hard to punish people for it.
      • Oct 29, 2010
        This section of the forums is great for those types of issues. The more we know, the more we can help.
      • Jul 4, 2011
        I have never punished anyone for not 'shooting bahamut', it's a zombie server, people shouldn't be punished for shooting zombies (unless they're caged and can't go anywhere...).

        Regarding bhopping... I was about to make a thread myself, it has gone way overboard with people having their own views on what bhopping is and get punished for ridiculously simple jumps that doesn't even give you an advantage. Jumping twice in a row up a pipe for example is not bunny hopping, it's simple jumps done one after the other, anyone with basic CS:S skills is capable of doing it. Actuall bhopping should be dealt with if the server disallows it via some kind of anti-bhopping plugin. The server used to have one implemented but then stopped working because of an update (?). I don't understand why this hasn't been looked into more since it's obviously a big issue on the server.

        That's a shame, shouldn't have to be that way.
        • Agree Agree x 2
        • Jun 18, 2012
          Not entirely true, ussualy when I try to see who griefs I simply check someones name right after they break a rule griefing/BHopping a 100 feet in front of evryone. And 9/10 times it succeeds. Idk, maybe it's just me, but admins can do something about griefing so easily sometimes, especially when retards do it clearly visible and they just don't ... It gets me frustrated :razz: BTW when people even announce they'll use a materia it isn't. (Yes I've seen it happen lol.)

          However let's drop the admin argue and focus on the thread? I say aye.
          • Agree Agree x 1
          • Aug 26, 2012
            I know what this is about.

            Yes I was late into the game, HOWEVER When other admins are saying he already got +3 warnings about it and should've been kicked.
            I went into SPEC mode and WATCHED him do it again. I found it just to kick him without a warning from me because +3 warning was suffice. He's lucky I didn't take into account his past transgressions with him bhopping for a 10min ban.

            When he came back to be a piss ant over my kicking him. I told him if he really sot out issue with how I handled it he was free to take it to the admin abuse. Obviously he needs you to hold his hand and bring this up.

            For this I say No.
          • May 6, 2012
            All i'm saying, is that too many admin kick players for [bhop] and it is out of control, the warning is to generic and either admin kick players that they aren't suppose to, or player get kicked without even knowing that the jump they did is considered bhopping.

            Basically, admin are skipping the warning part and kick right away which I believe should be admin abuse.
            But since too many admin does it, we can't start opening admin abuse thread each time.

            Anyway, it hard enough to be an admin and monitor, it sad to add extra step before they kick players.
            But if it not a blatant bhopping, the admin should give a direct warning to the player.

            MainstreamHo: I don't know what you are talking about, but bhopping shouldn't be allowed, I never said it should be. Please read the thread.
            Too many other type of SMALL air acceleration that don't give any big advantage to the user are being treated as bhopping and kicked without warning while it might be illegal but shouldn't be called bhopping.


            HollowSystem: Sorry, your kick wasn't <the reason> I made this thread. Just reminded me that there a blatant issue with how kicking people for bhopping has became.
            Maybe I should focus my thread on 1 aspect...

            Right now, I just want admin to give personal warning when it not an obvious bhop script or it just a small advantage but not that much big of a deal. I know on shroom jumping in slope happen often, there in mako in the stairs going down, there quite a few map that have slope and admin kick for simply jumping which the landing give a boost forward.

            MainstreamHo is like an extremist right now or he doesn't get how many average noob player who don't have a bhop script and have no idea what bhopping is, get kicked for bhopping and they don't even turn while jumping or have any idea, they just see someone and do the same thing and boom, kicked.
            Arden, Dec 1, 2012 Last edited by Arden, Dec 1, 2012
          • Dec 6, 2011
            What I've done: If the player blatantly bunny hops right after a global warning, and are a regular to the server, they get kicked. They KNOW the rules but just don't care.

            Now if I've never seen them before, I'd freeze them, give them a direct warning, then let them proceed.

            I'm not going to sit there and warn a guy that's been on the server for months, multiple times for the same bullshit. They just think there's no admin watching, and they can do whatever they'd like.
          • May 6, 2012
            I have no issue with your judgement, you can do what ever you want. I have some issue with other admin.
            I personally don't bhop, don't have a script, and try my best to go the fastest i can on map to trigger the lever.

            Now, the feeling of, I can be kicked because i did something that give a small acceleration when it not blatant bhopping... it is pretty annoying.

            Let take this 1 scenario

            If someone in a slope down while holding the forward key repetitively press the space bar.
            Should an admin just kick him and claim, I gave a general warning, no bhop?
          • May 14, 2011
            I was just blown away by the vid tony linked.

            Anyway a pluggin should be implemented to clip the players speed after hitting the jump key if you really want to stop bhoppers.

            Secondly the bhopper should only be penalised if he is hitting remarkable speeds like in the vid tony linked. Going 20% faster than everyone else really doesnt hurt the game in any way. Especially as 99% people cant bhop uphill faster than they can walk.

            Bhopping doesnt help zombies because one hit from any gun and the push back will stop them dead. The only time it helps is when holding a door. But that is just part of the game. If they manage to slip through the door using a strafe jump then thats thier prize.

            Humans bhopping at 120% speed lets them hit triggers maybe 5-10 secs faster than a running person would get there. People who over kill with bhop and go at 600UPS should be warned and punished, not general bhopping.

            In any case back to the subject. I think this is admins try to go for bans more than admins stopping rule breaking. For the time I was an admin all I could hear constantly over admin chat when a rule breaker was on was "This is my ban!". I believe that admins ban people because they enjoy it? They want more "points" to get promoted maybe? They want to get noticed?

            The rule of no bhop is a good rule, its just how people interpret that rule is wrong.
            • Agree Agree x 1
            • Feb 14, 2012
              Very, very ironic statements here.

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