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Suggestion Disable Flashlight spam

Discussion in Server Suggestions & Bugs started by JorisCeoen, Aug 6, 2013

  1. Apr 9, 2012
    Posts
    Hello PF,

    Please I'm here to ask for a new rule that should get people kicked, or a plugin or anything else that prevents people from spamming flashlights.

    You might think at first that it's unnecessary and stupid and a waste of time and energy, but there are several reasons why:

    1. Flashlight is a dynamic light source in the Source Engine. It is being calculated at runtime, and is amongst the most expensive entities to render during gameplay. One spamming it with a bind to the scrollwheel can have loads of fun with it while FPS drains to the gutter. Slower PC's actually suffer from this, especially with 64 players, and one spamming it on and off can have a pretty notable impact on those PC's. Even my PC received impact from it, though not gamebreaking.
    2. It makes an incredibly noise, also being spammed the whole time, making it very unenjoyeable to walk next to such a player.
    3. Admins apparantly can't (or more likely don't want to due to lazyness... Some admin with cat and a little softthingy seemed to not care about it in the slightest)
    It's a suggestion, and honestly I think it's important for those who have a slighly slower PC than the average ZE player.
    • Agree Agree x 8
    • May 27, 2008
      Posts
      Personally, the noise itself isn't nearly annoying enough, rather that popular either, to be considered something along the lines of harassment or greifing. I don't play with my volume extremely loud, so it doesn't bother me in the slightest.
    • Mar 12, 2008
      Posts
      New rule: No flashlight allowed

      EDIT: I have not noticed any fps drop whatsoever from someone spamming a flashlight. Lots of people used to do it in mini-games and from what i've seen, never saw anyone complain about losing FPS from it. The noise is annoying sometimes, but that's about it. As far as people with crappy computers goes, there's not really much you can do there. If they're trying to run CS:S on a compaq (think ~8-9 years old, or so) they have more problems than you can help them with.
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Funny Funny x 1
      • Aug 8, 2012
        Posts
        LOL?

        I mean, there is a reason for volume control and video settings to reduce that "lag" or "FPS drop". A lot of decent g cards are on sale. Like mine, shitty GT 9500 plays on the highest settings in CS:S with no problem or FPS drops.
        Unless you have a potato computer, then I don't know.

        And I agree with Taters, there greater problems to help out with.
      • Feb 27, 2012
        Posts
        It depends on what your flashlight shines on most of the time... For example, use the cade gun on zm_fail_inc and turn your flashlight on on one of the cade walls, and you instantly drop down to like 30fps. I don't think he's saying it always affects FPS all the time, it just depends on the complexity of certain objects in game that can kill your FPS.

        Although, it is pretty annoying sometimes, but it really doesn't bother me at all.
        • Zing! Zing! x 1
        • Informative Informative x 1
        • Mar 12, 2008
          Posts

          I had a crappy touchscreen that could I used to run CS:S back a few years ago, it had integrated graphics and could only run it with reduced settings, but even back then I have yet to see a claim where spamming a flashlight would cause problems, unless everyone in the server is doing it, but I don't know if that's possible. Everything i'm seeing on steam forums about it/other sites said the issue existed ~2010 so that's probably been fixed by now.

          @JorisCeoen If it's a problem for them they can just do r_dynamic 0 in console and that eliminates any dynamic lighting for improved performance. After they're done they can set it back to 1 and everything is golden.

          This is just client-side then, no? I would blame the props used instead of light spammers; unless a flashlight spammer lighting up an object over and over again has a detrimental effect on other players on the server.
          Taters, Aug 6, 2013 Last edited by Taters, Aug 6, 2013
        • Feb 27, 2012
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          I don't think it's just client side, but i could be wrong... I just know that it can affect your framerate... maybe next time on fail_inc i'll test it out.
        • Feb 27, 2012
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          Tonight @sajak and I were testing a ZM map on my test server, and we came across some proof to post supporting @JorisCeoen . We were just running through the buildings looking for issues, when we noticed HUGE fps drops... Here are some screenshots. Only when the other person shines their flashlight, do other people lose FPS. So, you can shine your own flashlight on whatever you want and it won't kill your FPS, but everyone else will suffer.

          Before:
          [IMG]

          After (I turned on my flashlight too, ignore that):
          [IMG]

          Look at my FPS at the bottom. Drops about 60. I will upload a demo to youtube tomorrow demonstrating. It really depends on what players shine their lights on ingame, but if it's a surface like this, it will absolutely obliterate low-end PC FPS.
          • Like Like x 1
          • Agree Agree x 1
          • Nov 11, 2011
            Posts
            Yes, the FPS drops comes from rendering OTHER people's flashlights so it has a huge effect when being spammed. This shouldn't be something that can be looked over, it affects players. :sarcastic:

            Before render:

            [IMG]


            After Render:

            [IMG]
            • Like Like x 2
            • May 27, 2008
              Posts
              I guess flashlights will be disabled then.
            • Jul 8, 2013
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              Why not make flashlights client-side instead? If even possible.
            • May 31, 2012
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              I would hate for the flashlights to be disabled because they are really useful.

              Adding a rule would be too difficult to regulate; if the admin isn't standing right next to the person then they would have to switch to spectate or noclip to catch the person (it's not like the mic or chat if someone spams it then everyone knows). I could imagine a lot of players falsely calling for an admin or the person stops spamming their flashlight.

              Drops in FPS aren't game-breaking as you mentioned... in the above examples your lowest FPS rates are about as fast as my fastest and I haven't had a problem with people spamming their flashlight. The noise it makes is slightly annoying but it hasn't ruined my day before lol. I just don't think this is enough to remove/disable/punish for the flashlight in anyway.
            • Nov 11, 2011
              Posts
              Quit being a sarcastic douchebag. It's a legitimate point of discussion. There are different ways to implement a no-spam flashlight with SM which you are clearly ignorant of but Kyle is not.
              Post Merged, Aug 8, 2013
              Not possible unless it is a client sided particle which makes no real sense.

              People don't normally use the volume command to set their ingame volume. At normal sound, the click is deafening.
              • Agree Agree x 1
              • Mar 12, 2008
                Posts

                @Tony the Tiger!! :grin:

                I wouldn't consider this valid unless there are multiple instances of this occurring. a couple screenshots of a flashlight on a window with multiple surfaces on one map alone isn't exactly conclusive, but thanks for the info. I would have much preferred a demo of spam flashing around the map(s) with the fps graph running the whole time so I can study it. I'll look further into this, but it seems that flashlights do have a slight impact on FPS. Any findings I come up with, i'll post here, or in another thread if this one gets locked for whatever reason. Game ruining? no way. The game is still highly playable at 30-40 fps, keeping ~48 fps in tony's case and ~88 in your case is perfectly fine IMO. ~60 fps is *ideal* for any game, but you won't find a way to reliable get that unless you make tweaks on your end, such as disabling dynamic lights/other console tweaks.

                @sajak : Indeed easy fixes, but when it comes down to the line, what is decided happens to all of us, so keep that in mind. Keep the insults to a minimum. It was obviously a joke.
                • Like Like x 1
                  Taters, Aug 8, 2013 Last edited by Taters, Aug 8, 2013
                • May 27, 2008
                  Posts
                  Stop being a joke. Every little thing that happens in our servers do not have to have any regulations for it. I think you among many forget the most that this is still a game. Also, I have no idea why you choose to criticize me and call me ignorant when clearly, Taters is the one who originally made a similar stab first whereas my reply was akin to his. Undo the wad in your panties and quit being the fun police, or click this below. All of it.

                  Now, with that out of the way, I really do not personally feel that a script being written for this is worth anyone's time. It's a small occurrence that is quite equal to a fly buzzing around your room. But hey, do as you please. I'll just keep on spinning my mouse wheel.
                  • Like Like x 1
                  • Nov 17, 2012
                    Posts
                    All you kiddies arguing about GPU. CSS is a CPU intensive game and Intel HD 3000 (Inbuilt Graphics) has no problem running AA etc. Max. Most of the settings in Graphics Settings are increasing the work load on the CPU, not the GPU. Anyways, continue ^_^

                    EDIT: I don't have an FPS issue but the sound is just irritating, especially when they bind it to their scroll wheel.
                    • Agree Agree x 2
                      Complexity, Aug 8, 2013 Last edited by ΣZΣ | ๖ۣۜComplex1ty, Aug 8, 2013
                    • Feb 11, 2012
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                      Yea my PC also isn't the very best, but it doesn't really bother me either when people spam the flashlight tbh :razz:
                    • Jan 11, 2011
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                      Fun Fact: Moria,Mount Doom and Helms Deep originally had the Console Message "Flashlights disabled for better FPS" on them, and it also it fits both maps to not have flashlights, being medieval and mapped with that in mind. Not sure if they still don't allow them to be honest.
                      About the screenshots with losing lots of FPS: Your own Flashlight is more expensive than others (FPS wise), because of the "L4D Shadows" you render and what not; but yeah, others people flashlights will also drop your FPS, but not as significantly as those screenshots indicate, by far.
                      And now a wild guess of my own: I wouldn't be surprised if the size of the Light Map Grid could affect the FPS decrease from the flashlights, as it does with the dynamic lights. But I'm not sure, and that would only affect mappers, not the server.

                      About the issue itself; I personally get annoyed by the sound when I happen to be near a hardcore flashlight spammer, but I couldn't care less about the illumination or the FPS drop (even on my old computer); but I wouldn't trade not having that rare eventual spammer noise with not being able to use the flashlight at will on the maps that allow it.
                      • Winner Winner x 1
                      • Apr 9, 2012
                        Posts
                        Wow trololol, I wouldn't have guessed this thread would become this much looked on xD instead of disabling flashlights, I mean it's still part of the game and certainl dark areas in certain maps can't be without, couldn't we just have something that prevents us from spamming the flashlight?

                        Or, could it be possible to disable the dynamic effect of all players their flashlight except for yours?

                        I have no idea how Source can be tweaked with SourceMod, so I guess it's @Kyle that would know more of it :S
                        • Agree Agree x 1
                        • Apr 9, 2012
                          Posts
                          Also another thing, your own flashlight which is no more than a env_projectedtexture is also expensive, but it client-side so that's a personal issue, you would also note FPS drops for theprojected texture if you stand in front of a wall and turn it on and off (it drops my fps from 230 to around 180, though I don't see a speed difference at all, it's only noticeable at complex areas with lots of stuff going on). EP2 and Portal 2 used these projected texture extensivly, but both are SP games so it's not really too much of a hassle, and since it's client side nothing should be done about it.

                          I believe the biggest concern should be the dynamic lights of other players, and perhaps the spamming.