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Exclude a certain player model for a map

Discussion in Mapping Discussion started by JorisCeoen, Jul 21, 2012

  1. Apr 9, 2012
    Posts
    Hi everyone,

    I'm closing in onto the release of ze_SSBB_v1 and I've been thinking that the crawler zombie model is just horrible for my map. I have about 35 playable characters, some are bigger than other ones, but the fact is that the hitboxes of the crawler model are so little, and as you could guess if you pickup a char, the player/zombie model will become invisible. As such, when people are going to shoot the character of which an crawler has picked it up, they will hit nothing, and the zombie crawlers will have arguably 100% chance to zombify players just because of that.

    My question is of course if it is possible to exclude the zombie crawler model for my map if it will be released. If it's not... Then only Pf will have the hardest time beating it in any possible way.

    Thanks for the replies in any case
  2. May 31, 2012
    Posts
    zr_class_modify "nameofthezombiecrawlerclass (ask someone who manages classes here)" "enabled" "no".

    For example, on my ze test server, with the lotr skins:

    zr_class_modify "nazgul" "enabled" "yes"
    • Mapping King Mapping King x 2
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    • Apr 9, 2012
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      Wow nice! This is all what I needed :grin: many thanks envio!
    • Apr 9, 2012
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      Could any root admin (@Kyle) plz tell me the exact classnames of both the normal crawler as well as the donator crawler class. I have to disable them otherwise my map will be unfinishable, many thanks :smile:
    • May 14, 2011
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      You tagged him wrong.

      @Haplo
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      • Mar 12, 2008
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        Wait, you intend to make the crawler zombie not selectable on your map? That is a popular skin.

        Something about this doesn't sound good.

        EDIT: You can't.

        Source: Josh

        You could only exclude 'classes' that you, the mapper, make. See envio's example of Nazgul. As a player skin, the mapper can disable/enable it with commands. You can't change server classes.
      • May 27, 2008
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        If your intentions are to disable the half-zombie models, your map will not be on our servers. I don't even think you can disable them.
      • May 14, 2011
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        Whats wrong with disabling the half zombies?

        In this map the fact that the hitbox is so short would ruin the gameplay. You would still have the other custom skins, just not the half zombie.
      • May 31, 2012
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        No, no, no. You misunderstood my example. That only works with server classes; for example here on pF let's imagine there's a class called 'donorskinA' which collides in one determinate map (because, for example, there are NPCs and it might lead to confusion). MapperA, who is conscious of this issue -since he plays on pF most of the time- adds the line zr_class_modify "donorskinA" "enabled" "no" on the map, as a command sent to a point_servercommand. This way, MapperA disables the class on this particular server. On other servers, as the class does not exist, the command will have no effect. Of course, to do this, Joris needs the 'real' name of both normal and donor crawler skin. Alternatively I can give him another system to force one hitbox'd model, but I'm not quite sure since it would be EVEN more intrusive (it would overwrite all the zombies).

        You can do this server-sided, though, with the necesary mapname.cfg file containing that particular line. Maybe you would prefer that way? I'd like to remark that Joris' changes wouldn't be permanent and that, without them, the map would not be playable (the map forces diferent, as far as I know, models parented to the player, but he can't -poor, poor mappers- change the real models. Half zms have a different hitbox -> fail with those parented models since you can't 'hit' them normally)
        enviolinador, Jul 21, 2012 Last edited by enviolinador, Jul 21, 2012
      • May 28, 2012
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        What enviolinador said =P
      • Apr 9, 2012
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        Bah, it's popular solely because it's actually the model with half hitboxes. Not only is that difficult because of a stupid reason, but it's about 90% the cause of all fails on Pf. As a result, I will just indicate in the map that this map is suited for all servers with complete zombie models (which means all servers except Pf), but you could still put it on the list when it'll be released if you actually think Pf might able to pass the spawn zone... Oops, the spawn zone isn't even an escaping zone, perhaps they will still be able to pass at least that zone then... :-/

        No serious, the half zombie model is from start on one of the things that I would have removed from the Pf ze_servers if I where the one who was granted those possibilities. I'm don't have them, I can't change them, well that's it then, then there is no point trying to look into this further. Many professional players have also told me that the half zombie model is useless, unprofessional and literally downgrades all levels of skill on Pf just because of the hitboxes. After all I know Pf will never remove the model of course but it's always nice to point out my opinion about it anyway. It's a model that is popular by the noobs (I can't express it otherwise) and no matter how good you are, because of that model, it's easy cake for about anyone, even if it was a new player being day 1 on the ze server, to kill anyone in seconds at the first classic holding spot...
        As I see it, there is in the half zombie model literally no advantages that are fairplay at any point. The fast zombie is good because it's fast but it's at least noticable. The crawler barely differs in speed, being worse that the donator one has speed+ and is actually the zombie with all possibilities. I do not count HP in because HP is one of the smallest factors in ze, especially if !zspawn is forced via the map.

        I mean that the crawler is simply the collection of all advantages of all zombies, being unbalanced and overpowered compared to all the rest.
        Now you can throw all console settings and comparisions to me as you'd like and explain me completely how the crawler model is NOT completely advantaged... But in-game this is just clear proof as all fails are almost always crawler infections. You can't deny it. I think the crawler model should completely be replaced, or at least have hitboxes comparable to a normal zombie (which sounds arguably impossible to do).

        I just don't understand why this has to be again something arguably impossible to request...
        And I would like to have the real answer to the question: Is removing the crawler zombie class impossible or simply prohibited?

        Many thanks anyways... :-|
      • May 31, 2012
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        Joris, I have to disagree with the 'half zombie downgrading pF's skill levels'. I still think you should be able to disable it on your map (as it is possible, other thing can be if pF leaders want you too), but I can't agree with the crawler being OP. I've played in a few servers with crawlers (my server did have it; I loved it -it was slightly slower than here in pF, though-) and I believe they add some interest to gameplay. Also, you can't put the blame on the general lack of skill level of pF players on a single model, being probably one of the most populated servers (if not the most), and given, from my experience, the unsurprising reality that fails ocurr with all kinds of models (Although I'll admit that halvies are the cause of the 80% of Paper fails).

        Back on topic, I might understand that you don't want your servers' settings -and personality to some degree- changed, but in this case it's to make a map fully playable -a promising map, I must add, judging by the very few information I have and that fantastic showcase video Joris upped-. He does not want to take the zombie from all maps -well, from his last post it seems he'd like too, but he just needs it to be taken on his map, and being reasonable enough, I believe that, after his hard work, effort and time put into mapping, it's not such a big deal-. If you don't like mappers changing your configs -don't check my maps, since they force a few special cfgs :vampire:- you can always use the other method I told you: a plain .cfg file. But not doing it would be, to my understanding, an error. Joris map might be one of the most near-and-promising maps to come shortly, and I wouldn't like -neither does Joris, I believe- to miss it on the server.
        • Agree Agree x 1
        • Mar 12, 2008
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          If the aim is to remove the half zombie from being able to be selected on our server while your map is active, I can't see this being added by roots.

          One of the (in my opinion) best parts of being a donator is being able to select a half zombie with health regen. I'm sure others would agree, as it is a fun class to use.

          However i will leave that to them, and will not add any other comments to this. They are the deciding factor, not me. I was just airing my concerns.

          Also What?

          EDIT: strikethrough
          Taters, Jul 21, 2012 Last edited by Taters, Jul 21, 2012
        • May 31, 2012
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          Paper/Dejavu force 'small' cfg changes (zombie spawn amount, spawn time, spawn place) for each level. It's not the same as disabling a class, but it's still making slight changes on the server.
        • Mar 12, 2008
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          Well see, that's fine IMO. Paper has a small spawn area so you need to tweak those settings accordingly. It's not as severe as restricting a class, though.

          That should never have to happen to play a map on our servers, and our mappers/anyone that does maps FOR pF (exclusively?) should factor that in. Otherwise make it so all servers can use it.
        • May 31, 2012
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          Joris isn't making a map only for pF, he's making a huge project -I believe it has... err... 10 stages? 12?- and, being a regular on the ZE server, he'd like to play it. It can be played with the half zombies, but it won't work well. I think that what you fail to see is that basically the map will assign models to the players (READ: ze_SSBB_v1, Super Smash Bros Brawl, lots of characters to play with). If you use a half zombie, the small hitbox will make your model almost imposible to hit (as the head will be, for example, the legs of... err... Link? Mario? Samus?, where you won't aim because the model will 'lie' to you -and those visual 'lies' are not easy to overcome).

          (Also, for the matter, being 'half zombie' or 'normal zombie' won't really matter on this map as far as I know, since you'll have another different model no matter what -as with paranoid monsters, for example-)
        • Mar 12, 2008
          Posts
          I clearly read that in the OP. This sounds more like a MiniGames map than a ZE map the way he's describing it.

          Correct me if i'm wrong, but there's other options...Make skins unable to be picked up by zombies, for example? That'd be my first suggestion.

          I've seen the video as well, which labels as "outdated". Even if it's "outdated" by 3 months...The concept is great, and so are the selection of models, but the way you wish to apply it to ZE by removing classes seems awkward.
          Taters, Jul 21, 2012 Last edited by Taters, Jul 21, 2012
        • May 31, 2012
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          First, I'm not sure how it looks like a MG map. That kind of item/model/special attack selection -smaller in number, of course- can be also seen on Minas. In fact, I can only think of mg_itembattle as a similar map, and that map is actually the main influence for all the ZE weapons.

          Also, from what I know, the map has changed a lot. And if you disallow zombies taking the models -not skins- (and to be even more correct they are props, but bleurgh) would mean that the 'evil characters' don't exist, which would translate into a flawed SSBB reproduction. I wouldn't consider that another option.

          You are removing one class that in this map would cause massive fail. He could make it so that instead of removing the class, the model of crawlers was the normal zombie (using zr_class_modify "crawler" "model_path" "blabla"). Still, you fail to see that you WON'T see the zombie models. Zombies turn into those 'different models' too.
        • Mar 16, 2008
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          This won't be happening, we have disabled the ability for maps to run commands that would effect the server so I can tell you right now that you're not going to be disabling Half-Zombies for our server. Assuming the map is good enough and Half-Zombies are really breaking the gameplay, I can disable them then for your map only but I'm not going to do that upfront. I refuse to disable Half-Zombies because we have a donor version which we are required to run as we're promising it with their subscription.
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          • Mar 12, 2008
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            You fail to notice that I've noticed that the player model disappears. I even linked the video. If you're talking about flaws then it's already flawed right out the door.

            Super Smash Brothers BRAWL. as in, fight. as in, MG.

            Brawl, not escape. Not only that, but the description of "evil characters" doesn't make sense. You have Bowser lined up with Snake, Marth, Roy, Pit, Metaknight and GANONDORF.

            I might be wrong, but my 19+ years of nintendo gaming experience might back me up on this...BOWSER AND GANONDORF ARE FUCKING EVIL. That too is flawed.

            And nothing comes close to minas.