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func_ladder is a pointless entity.(create optimized toggleable ladders!)

Discussion in Mapping Discussion started by nyronic, Feb 21, 2013

  1. May 17, 2011
    Posts
    While working on my tower map I've been looking for ways to optimize it more, I noticed all of my func_ladder entities were chopping up vis. This was pretty irritating since I have a lot of ladders in my map that are sticking out in various areas. I decided to make a quick test map to see if I could solve this.

    First I tried making various func_ladders of different textures, invisible, playerclip, clip, nodraw, and invisibleladder. Playerclip and clip don't function as func_ladders and instead just act like regular clipping brushes, while invisible, nodraw, and invisibleladder all function as a ladder.

    So I thought, whats the point of the invisibleladder texture if the other textures function as ladders too? I decided to make just a regular world brush textured with invisibleladder, it still functioned as a ladder. I tried to func_detail it and it was still chopping up vis.

    I then tried a func_brush textured with invisibleladder, and it worked! It didn't chop up vis, and best of all you can even give it a name and toggle the ladder on and off! The only cost of it is you end up adding to your total edicts, but you can always just tie all of your ladders into 1 entity unless you need to toggle individual ladders.
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Mapping King Mapping King x 1
    • Nov 11, 2011
      Posts
      Good information!
    • Apr 9, 2012
      Posts
      Why... would you want to use func_ladder in the first place. It doesn't has any outputs right?
      Post Merged, Feb 21, 2013
      That's wrong but it doesn't really matter


      Note:
      This is an internal entity. When the map is compiled by VBSP it is processed and then removed: it does not exist when the map is running.
    • Nov 11, 2011
      Posts
      If you want to toggle a ladder...?
    • May 17, 2011
      Posts
      I think you misread what I typed out, I thought func_ladder was needed for it to actually function as a ladder. I know it's an internal entity, I'm using func_brush instead because func_ladder chops up vis.
    • Apr 9, 2012
      Posts
      By default I can't output anything to it, I mean I can't disable that or anything at all. I'm talking about the func_ladder entity only, I'm not talking about the func_brush with invisibleladder texture
      Post Merged, Feb 21, 2013
      A ok, then I understand x)
      • Funny Funny x 1
      • May 14, 2011
        Posts
        I have used the ladder texture ever since cs:go didn't have a func_ladder.

        I am quite sure the ladder part of it is just a line in the vmt file. You could just make any texture a ladder.
        • Informative Informative x 1
        • Feb 24, 2011
          Posts
          I never use func_ladders at all anymore, i think the last time i ever did it was on ze_infiltration. "I was young" is my nowadays response to that.
          I simply use the ladder tool texture over whatever ladder/climbing texture i prefer and it works like a charm, you can also attach the texture to moving/dynamically spawned entities if you prefer that.
          Regarding func_brushes:
          I've come to learn that toggle-able & collide-able brushes which the players either stand on or touch alot should be used as a func_wall_toggle rather than a func_brush. It seems to be draining less server performance as it also gives better/sharper collisions if you know what i'm getting at, atleast when you either have a inclined, rotated or a group of brushes in it.
          I personally try to avoid func_brushes as much as possible as i find them to be unreliable and laggy for most of it, and not really too useful except when it comes to saving states over rounds.
          Well that's just my opinion, feel free to think the other way as much as you like. :razz:

          Func_brushes will also stay in the same state over the rounds, so if you disabled it on round 1 as it ended, it would still be disabled as you start the new round. (you can just re-enable/disable it in the initial round outputs, i'm sure you would come to think of this right away. I was just mentioning the issue itself in case you didn't know about it)

          There is a backside with the inputs for the wall_toggle though, it doesn't have any enable/disable functions, but only a toggle function. There's workarounds for this though, by just using a couple of logic_relays to manage the states in case you'd like to force enable/disable it at some point. Worry not.

          And as i guess you just have a smaller non-twisted/rotated func_brush which that many players aren't going to stay on at the same time, i suppose you don't need to change it at all. (I wouldn't try to force you to anyhow) I'm just sharing some of my knowledge when it comes to it. I hope my small wall-of-text gave you guys some more insight about func_brushes and wall_toggles.
          Have a good evening! :wink:
          • Informative Informative x 3
          • Mapping King Mapping King x 1
            Luffaren, Feb 21, 2013 Last edited by Luffaren, Feb 21, 2013
          • May 17, 2011
            Posts
            Yeah, I was under the impression they needed to be func_ladders as that's how it always was in GoldSrc. This was my first time using them in Source. The visleaf chopping was the main reason I investigated this. I generally try to avoid lots of players standing on a networked entity at the same time too, I'm not sure how it would impact performance being as it's a ladder that you "stick" to rather than a platform the player stands on, and all of my ladders are 1 entity(Except a few that I'm now toggling based on the mode that's picked). I'll try out the wall toggle if there's any problems.
          • Jul 4, 2011
            Posts
            A bug I noticed with toggleable ladders is that if you stand on top of it then jump, it boosts you really high up the air. Never paid any attention to the visleaf aspect of the ladder texture on a world brush though, thanks.
          • May 14, 2011
            Posts
            If you use func_ladder it gives you errors in console that it doesn't work.
          • Jan 11, 2011
            Posts
            You can just Func_Detail your Tools/Ladder textured brushes :-s
          • Sep 25, 2010
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            This is what I do.
          • Nov 11, 2011
            Posts
            Yep.
          • Apr 9, 2012
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            func_kaemon is a pointless entity. It corrupts a vmf on compile :reallypissed:
          • Nov 11, 2011
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            func_joris is a pointless entity. It deletes all custom models and materials and replaces them with shitty joris made ones on compile. :reallypissed:
            • Agree Agree x 1
            • Apr 9, 2012
              Posts
              func_sajak is a pointless entity. It randomly places a bar in your map at a convenient spot, whilst glitching the func_precipitation entity :reallypissed:
              • Funny Funny x 1