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Issue: ze_destruction_of_exorath

Discussion in CS:S Zombie Escape started by iProbie, Apr 24, 2012

  1. Apr 1, 2012
    So far, the only time I've seen the CTs "won" by reaching the 9 minutes time limit per round is in this map (tbh, I was even surprised when the clock reaches 0). The problem is, if 9 minutes passed, the round would then restart at the same difficulty level again.

    sources of the problem:
    well, the boss fight with Exorath can take extremely long time due to possibly poor AI. (up to 4 minutes!!!)
    it's not just the boss fights, the map could take up to 5-6 minutes of time between reaching the boss fight and the spawn point.

    Well, with enough skilled CTs and players, the 9 minute limit per round is no longer an issue, but still, pF is a really popular server, attracting those who are, no offense here, less skilled/clueless about the map.

    the map is great and fun, especially with 5 difficulty levels and plenty of items and guns and I have yet to see the last difficulty level.

    so, anyone got any insights on how to solve such issue?
    possible solutions:
    1. remove the time limit per round, but that would be probably a bit major/huge for the sake of a map (haven't found any other ZE map that would reach the 9 minute limit)
    2. do 1. but only for exorath, no idea if this is possible.
    3. do nothing.
    4. contact the mapmaker and see if we can work things out.
    5. create some rules regarding stalling in boss fights. well, most boss fights maps have the ultimate way of slaying all CTs (bahamut, paper escape defense robot, in case of predator: much better AI system/killing tools than exorath).
    • Informative Informative x 2
      iProbie, Apr 24, 2012 Last edited by iProbie, Apr 24, 2012
    • iProbie
      This message by iProbie has been removed from public view. Deleted by iProbie, Apr 24, 2012.
      Apr 24, 2012
    • Dec 3, 2011

      People told me that this thread was made so i quickly jump to the login screen to leave a comment on this.
      I am the creator of that map and the problem with the time limit is depending on how 'noob' players are inside the boss fight.

      The boss is pretty easy to defeat if u got all the stuff u need (example the mini nuke, shootable fan and flamethrower), thoose things can bring exorath already down to 50% health, then its just the job of the players inside to finish him.
      On SG/BG we are able to kill him easy (extreme mode he dies in less then 20 seconds with the good use of tools/guns) and godmode/impossible mode are bit harder but still between the time limit to finish.
      Although godmode/impossible mode can be a hard time eater, sometimes we are verry close to the +-40 seconds left limit.

      Also pF is the only server where it crashes so far i saw, i think this has to do with the player limit (like Hek told me to) so i will check this all anyway.
      I already have a 'bug list' to check so i will put this also in it to take a look at.

      if u got more problems/idea's or anything else -> shoot and ill try my best to fix.
      Thanks for this information, this helps me a lot fixxing the stuff better.

    • Apr 1, 2012
      well, I witnessed it with my own eyes, CTs "won" by reaching the 9 minutes time limit 2 times in a row in godmode difficulty.

      not that I'm trying to undermine your skills as a mapper, but exorath's targeting AI seems to be not that good.
      (what I observed is that when players are almost equally spread out, exorath's targeting AI would constantly switch, making him run around in circles without smashing anyone)

      another source of problem is well, players abusing this + players who can't kill exorath quick enough.

      des_of_exorath instantly becomes a personal favourite when I first played it, it's real fun and challenging at the same time, hope you'll update it or make maps that are even better or more awesome.
    • Dec 3, 2011
      Okay, i have write it down to look at for sure so i wont forget to do. List is quite big to update.
      The boss system is indeed not full ready yet (still kinda beta) and the 'stops' he does will be fixxed in the new version, we already found out a solution for this (envoilinador and me).

      One thing i dont get is this: another source of problem is well, players abusing this + players who can't kill exorath quick enough.
      Could u please explain this a bit better for me? Thanks.

    • Apr 1, 2012
      well, players already know that if they spread out, the AI's targetting system is almost fubar. so yeah, they'll use this knowledge to "stall" (e.g. exorath killed a lot of people earlier in the fight so only a few left are forced to fight exorath and so the fight would take a lot of time by using the fact that exorath's AI is still in "beta")

      noobs, talking about many things like, not dropping the big fan, cannot aim properly, panic and die early, etc etc.
    • Oct 17, 2011
      That is what makes the map fun. Having a hard map like exorath and difficult to beat is good and more challenging and makes players want to keep playing it till they get bored. If map s finishes, I do not think they wanna play it anymore mostly or it gets boring(not saying for Mako or predator) but yeah, it can still be beaten.
    • Apr 1, 2012
      on the contrary, people would not like it if the time limit is reached, because you have to restart the whole difficulty level again after 9 minutes and some seconds spent in freeze time :razz:.
      the issue is not the map taking a long time to finish (7-8 is still fine), it's the issue where the map is taking longer than the 9-minutes per round that pF has. so far, I've only seen the 9 minute limit being reached in exorath. other maps are much shorter, have good anti-camp mechanisms, bosses with the ultimate ability to kill everyone if the fight is taking too long (bahamut, paper escape) or bosses with extremely fierce aggression or boss fights where zombies are allowed to intervene and kill humans as well.

      I've yet to see the 5th diff of exorath as some people said CTs need to hold off zombies as well as fighting exorath.
      but CTs don't have to hold zombies off at the 4th difficulty at the exorath fight.

      but I'm sure things would get better once Purpzz updated exorath's AI
      iProbie, Apr 25, 2012 Last edited by iProbie, Apr 25, 2012
    • Oct 17, 2011
      Ah about that I dunno then. I
      PurpzZ , where you at? I thought you edited the map already and trashed the old version.
    • Nov 2, 2011
      She did edited the map already that is why its back on the servers. The only issue is and i experienced this as well while playing the map yesterday is that the boss took so long to kill. But as Purpzz stated, it is not that hard so we just gotta figure out the easier way to beat the boss.

      Also, what iProbie said maybe when a certain time limit that the boss is not defeated make it go ballistic and just kill everyone with one shot so the 9 minute limit will not be consume.
    • Dec 3, 2011
      Yep, this weekend i should take a look at it again and update all the things i have write down to fix/take a look at.
      The time limit is the first i will check to see what i can do to make it no longer run out of time.
      I also have a plugin that makes the time longer (from 9 minutes up to 15 minutes), maybe (yes maybe) i can find a trick to run the plugin via the map so the time is pushed to lets say 10 minutes or so? But not quite sure how far this is possible, need to ask my teacher Luffaren for that one :grin:
      Ive always wanted to get the max out the time so i can build a larger based system to give more play fun, but seems like not on all servers this is 50/50 so i will see what i do with that one.

      And yes like you said, the 5level (impossible mode) is the one where CT's need to hold the vent preventing zombies come inside the arena and kill all humans, i wanted to make all boss fights unique with something extra comming on how higher u level up (extreme: normal fight | godmode: duplication and impossible mode: duplication/vent holding).

      Little question.. call me dumb i dont mind but what means AI? I am from Belgium and my english is not 100% correct, i dont understand that AI thing. Sorry.

      True, but seems like not everything is setup yet how it should be so i will have to relook it this weekend when i find the time. :grin:

      This could be something to i can make to fix the run out time thing, will have to see what i do this weekend. But i keep that idea in my mind, going to write it down to so i wont forget :grin:
      Purpzz, Apr 25, 2012 Last edited by Purpzz, Apr 26, 2012
    • Purpzz
      This message by Purpzz has been removed from public view. Deleted by Purpzz, Apr 26, 2012, Reason: Put all post in 1.
      Apr 25, 2012
    • Purpzz
      This message by Purpzz has been removed from public view. Deleted by Purpzz, Apr 26, 2012, Reason: Put all post in 1.
      Apr 25, 2012
    • Apr 12, 2012
      AI = Artificial Intelligence, its the logic that makes your boss do what he does (I don't know what he does lol, but AI means running around, shooting, etc).
    • Apr 1, 2012
      you should try the map, I've yet to see the last difficulty because not everyone voted to extend when we beaten the 4th difficulty. :frown:
    • Dec 3, 2011
      Oh i see, thanks to let me know! x

      Yep, true, happends a lot on the other servers to because most think the 4 level is the last one. Which isnt, so they all start voting rtv, they win level 4, notice there is another level and then thanks to the rtv the map changes and they all are like 'oh wtf there is another level??' then they shout on eachother for doing rtv (while they did rtv themself lol). Thats life xD
    • Mar 20, 2012
      So finally...we extended Exorath and made it to the Impossible Mode
      We entered the arena 2 times for the boss fight, i and T_T were both times the only humans, who had to hold off the zombies.
      Best conditions would be slow motion gun and pushgun and we got both the weapons in the second try. But even with M249 and only one of us shot at one time, we failed after some seconds when ur weapons were on cooldown.
      I know u can change the mapsettings in the admin room to increase the number of players who can enter the vent, but is there a possibility that we can keep the settings after mapchange for the next time?
      Would be probably kind of annoying if an admin has 2 go in noclip evrytime we advance to the last difficulty...

      i dont know if michelle updates this anyway...but would be probably much better if theres no limitation of how many players can enter it...30 zombies vs 2 humans is truly impossible^^
    • Apr 1, 2012
      Michelle said she's releasing an update very soon but she couldn't promise it. well, I guess that's why it's called Impossible mode :razz:
    • Feb 11, 2012
      Maybe with unlimited ammo 2 guys could hold it, but not with reload. Stupid to try to beat it cuz you know u cant. :razz:
    • Dec 3, 2011
      I have currently a v2.5 ready that will be tested on a server for me, now 3 humans are allowed to go inside the vent + the ammo refill also works now in the vent so the ammo get refilled each 30 seconds.
      Also the trick with slowmo / pushgun is the best way to do, since they have special powers to help a bit more. Hopely this should work a bit better now.
    • Apr 1, 2012
      ok, Michelle just released a v3 :grin:

      # Changed the total amount of humans allowed to go inside the vent (impossible mode)
      # Changed the controls from pushgun and flamethrower so they cannot be pressed nomore when a level is played out (this prevent trolls activate it to kill other humans when level is over)
      # Changed the position of 2 rocks inside the zm cage (boss fights) so nobody can get stuck in them
      # Changed the position of the mini nuke so its closer to the end
      # Changed the kill option for Exorath, when he is defeat he should now die without first killing some humans
      # Added a new controlling system so when all levels are complete, the system will random choose a new level
      # Added a new trigger that refills the ammo in all modes (previous this was only for boss fights)
      # Added a breakable glass inside the elevator which breaks so zombies who are on top of it still can move out
      # Added a new thruster on both bosses so they will no longer flip or move under the map
      # Fixed the nade damage system from Exorath, he will no longer move when trowing a nade to him
      # Fixed the unlock button from the flamethrower, unlocking goes faster now
      # Fixed the flamethrower for Exorath duplication, now also the duplicator can be set on fire
      # Fixed the point system, now all players who won a level will receive the points
      # Improved again the boss system, Exorath will no longer target dead humans or zombies
      # Improved also the movement system from Exorath, he should move always now
      # Improved the chopper structure from impossible mode, he is bigger now
      # Improved the lights on some spots to make it less darker
      # Improved some textures who were nodraw but visible for players
      # Improved the pushgun triggers to prevent zombies jump to it and flying over
      # Improved again the lag spots, although i still see some lag bumps but it should be already a lot better now
      # Removed couple things and made the same effect but on a cheaper way to use less entities then need
      • Like Like x 1