Welcome to PlagueFest.com! Log in or Sign up to interact with the Plague Fest community.
  1. Welcome Guest! to interact with the community and gain access to all the site's features.

Suggestion LSA vs GRIEFERS

Discussion in Server Suggestions & Bugs started by Shmo, Nov 23, 2020

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jul 14, 2018
    Posts
    Okay okay okay, if my opinion means anything, it’s that there must be a balance between the hardcore griefers and the hardcore admins, and I believe I know where that middle ground is. Firstly I believe that hardcore griefers should be banned, but my definition is different to yours. Someone that blocks ladders for a full round, blocks doorways or nades a new players Cade ‘just for the lols’ should be punished. But I bring you the point that Saucey made to me, as with sex, what if it’s consensual ? Like seriously, if I consent hzrd to grief me, where is the issue ? If I allow Bross to ruin MY cade and I literally have no care, where is the problem ? Now another thing is the length of the ban, I mean there should be a set period for each ban, not a recurring ban where it goes 1 hour, 1 day, 1 week, 1 month 12 months, 1 million decades, like chill man, have a set amount of days for each fault. You be racist ? Your off for the week. You awped someone to a roof? You’re out for the day. But this idea of just doubling and tripling down and just handing out ridiculous sentences, just chill and maybe you’ll have more traffic through the server. Let’s not forget all the good us players have done for the community, whether it’s teaching people secrets, who’s who in the server, buying eachother donator, teaching how to cade, how to run and gun etc etc, you can’t throw the baby out with the bath water and you must give the devil his due. Now onto hardcore admins, I don’t even know where to start, and to avoid beef I won’t mention names, tentions already high in this community atm. I have too many hours of demo’d footage to find the injustice played out by very biased admins. Like having double standards towards players they don’t like, letting things slide for others and not for certain players literally only because they’re better than them at ZM. I have literally been ghosted by admins, and have private chats and screenshots to prove this mentality some of them have to just get players banned. Literally where I’ve unintentionally missed a BULLET onto someone’s cade while shooting a zombie and before I can say sorry I’m kicked, banned and never to be heard of again. So I believe this culture of admins head hunting players due to some animosity they have or some petty argument or what ever the case needs to be cut out of PF. Why are we even here ? To have fun and de-stress after a long day, so why ruin that by constantly being out to get eachother? Now as for the solution I’ll try and summarise as best as possible 1. Have set ban periods for particular rules broken. For example Griefing- 1 week Racism- 1 week Mic spamming- Gagged for the day And whatever you decide fits the crime within reason Ofcourse. 2. This culture of admins literally staying in spectator waiting for someone to slip to the point where they will leave their PC on overnight while demoing and sift through the footage to find some dirt also needs to stop, it’s also kind of creepy. This hovering over a player you don’t like waiting for a grain of bad to come from their behalf so you can give them 6 months or whatever needs to chill. 3. This ‘ban appeal’ system you got going doesn’t work. I say that subjectively because I really tried hard and was open and as honest as possible and even put conditions on myself where if I slip im banned for another year and it still wasn’t accepted so why have a system in place if it can’t be used ? It’s like having a complaint helpline that never answers the phone. 4. Everybody needs to be impartial and not hold grudges and make things so personal to the point where people are being banned via emotional reasons and not legitimate ones. That’s all I have to say I wrote this all while in a rush because I have shit to do and I was told about this whole LSA vs Community beef through a friend and I thought I’d put my two cents in. Now take what I say with a grain of salt. Add or decrease from it as you please, but please just try and see where I’m coming from, I’m someone that’s been banned 12+ times and also someone who had some amazing relationships with admins so trust me I know both sides and have been in the community long enough to see it from a birds eye view. Peace, love ya’ll and STOP THE HATE.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Jun 17, 2014
      Posts
      Moved thread to Server Suggestions & Bugs.
      • Wizard! Wizard! x 1
      • Mar 26, 2012
        Posts
        I have broken the rules 384 times, have 126 warnings, 87 kicks, 50 mutes, 66 gags, and 12 bans. You guys banned me for 1 hour, then 1 day, then 3 days, then 5 days, then 1 week, then 2 weeks, then 3 weeks... 1 month... 2 months... 3 months... 6 months... I don't see the pattern here. Seems harsh? Like sometimes you guys give me a warning for a rule that I already know and argue the procedures with you about. I refer to pg 13 of the pF rule book, it says griefing is warn > kick > 1 hour to 1 day ban. Like shouldn't it be like that everyday? Shouldn't it reset? You guys have no pattern. You guys aren't consistent. 1 year ban after my 12 ban is unfair because I was only griefing and the admin should've asked to find out if it was consensual. Yeh, that was some collateral damage, but it was an accident!

        I have been playing here for a decade. I can bhop through a crowd of zombies and live to tell about it. I can no scope AWP head shot snipe a half zombie from 2 km while flying in the air to perfectly land at the cliff that nobody else can land on in Desperados. I am probably one of the best players here, but I mess up all the time while these new players who couldn't hit a zombie standing in front of them don't usually accidentally shoot cades or shoot zombies into other players. I am telling you! It was an accident! You can trust me. :wink: OK, maybe the first 383 times it has happened was intentional, but 384 time was an accident so you guys should just let it slide... and like I said, it was consensual anyways.

        By the way, I am the backbone of this community. For every 50 players that join, I latch onto one, show them the rope, we work to screw over the rest of the server. Sure... 10 people leave the game and early and never return, but I mean, c'mon... do you think they were going to stay on this lame server? I at least made it fun for one person and you guys owe me a solid. I am bringing life into the server!

        I love to go into spectate, just chit chat, relax, maybe eat a snack. It's hard griefin... playing!!! I mean playing the game all day. I just want to chill. When an admin does it, OMG, it's gross. Like they are hunting to ban players! Like, if they are in spectate, they shouldn't be admining. Like it's OK for players to go into spectate, but admins, it's just creepy. Like they are literally hunting to ban people. Can we just disable admin when they are in spectate? Bunch of creeps hunting for bans.

        Peace. Love. N word. Whoops! That slipped. Don't ban me! It was an accident and I am black.
        • Artistic Artistic x 1
        • Feb 10, 2017
          Posts
          An absolute joke of a response. All he did was offer valid suggestions and asked if griefing should be legal if the other person agrees to it. It doesn't hurt to just listen and take some criticism.

          Anyways, @Tommi, I agree with a lot of the things you said here like admins should not hold grudges towards individuals, the admin culture of just waiting for something to happen to ban instead of actually playing the game, and being lenient towards incidents where it was indeed an accident. I do agree that hardcore griefers should be banned but you should not always ban straight away (kind of like what happened recently). I think punishments for breaking rules should depend on the actual rule itself. There are plugins that offer extended mutes/gags that last for days/weeks/months. So instead of banning the player for discriminating against others, you could mute them for a day or gag them for a day. You lose one less player and they can continue playing without causing trouble. As for rules like cadebreaking and teamkilling, the admin in place to kick/ban should really look at the situation deeply instead of immediately banning someone for an extended amount of time. People look at me and say "griefer!" but my last griefing ban dates back to 2018. If I were to join the server, accidentally throw a fail nade at a crowd of zombies and it ends up with one person dead, should I be banned for months even if my last griefing ban was in 2018? I think admins should really assess the situation before getting trigger happy with the ban just because I am a good player. But the player in question should not always have to record demos of every round because an admin is out for them. We're here to play and have fun, not the other way around. Especially if the situation was really an accident and then you can't ban appeal since you don't feel like you should record a demo of every single round. I also want to add if an admin is in spec and knows that griefing is about to happen, there is different ways to approach these type of things. For example, you can record a demo (obvious), strip the griefer of their weapons, slay the griefer. It kinda of sends a message for the player to not do that. And if they decide to report you for abuse, guess what, you have a demo! And they're not banned. I believe that the whole admin/ban system is flawed since there are indeed other ways to deal with certain situations. The job of the admin is to moderate the server to prevent things like rule breaking. Every situation doesn't have to end with a ban. You should not wait until the innocent player is dead to take action. These are of course my suggestions and thoughts, you can agree or disagree or even both.
          • Agree Agree x 2
          • Like Like x 1
            hzrd ヅ, Nov 23, 2020 Last edited by hzrd ヅ, Nov 24, 2020
          • Jul 14, 2018
            Posts
            Way to be disingenuous aprz. You were literally the one that told me about this admin culture of ‘hovering’ over a player in spec, specifically to find the slightest thing wrong and kick them. That’s not being an admin, that’s being a dick, and fine I’ll mention names, gigabyte would literally leave his PC on while he was afk and spectate my account and review his demos trying to find the tiniest fault in order to ban me (still couldn’t). Bowling, the amount of times I’ve seen with my own eyes bowling let some shit go that one of his good PF friends has done whether it’s block a ladder, ruin someone’s cade (the list goes on) and not utter a word about it. Now like I said, I have 100’s of hours of demo footage and I actually have enough shit on my plate to go and find you these examples so you’ll have to take my word which I assume you won’t because by the sounds of it PF admins are infallible. You guys are just power tripping, you have authority and as the saying goes ‘absolute power corrupts absolutely’. I’ve literally said in my post ‘take what I say with a grain of salt’ and begged the reader to be understanding, yet you’ve zoomed in and amplified and exaggerated every fault you could find without offering an actual solution or ‘middle ground’ which is what I’m trying to do here. I literally wrote that thread just before I left for work, it took me 10 minutes. I’m sure there’s many holes in my arguments, heck I’ll even give you one and it’s one you also pointed out, consensual griefing, I get that it won’t work, other people will see it and it’ll be too confusing to figure out what was consensual and what isn’t. I didn’t write these rules in gold, they’re SUGGESTIONS, they’re thoughts, they’re opinions, I thought the forum was where we come to bounce ideas back and forth at eachother instead you chose to be a smartass, come on aprz, you’re above that. How about I quote my thread maybe you missed it, “Griefers should be banned”, All I’m saying is the punishment should be a little more lax. I’ve literally had a whole baby in the time I’ve been banned, do you know how crazy that is when you think about it, because I used a vendi to boost on the roof and then shot it off once I was up, think about that for a moment, and I’m no angel, I’ve griefed, I’ve said racial slurrs, I’ve evaded, etc etc, I’m not saying don’t punish me, I’m saying show a little more mercy, and also what’s this claim 1 in 50, I’m friendly with soooo many players, it’s the opposite, I’m friendly with 50 and comes the occasional 1 that I don’t like, so don’t get it twisted. You said 10 players leave due to griefing? It shouldn’t be hard for you to find 10 players that can vouch for that claim. You know what, I’ll make it easy for you, I’ll half it, BRING ME 5 PLAYERS THAT LEFT PF AND STOPPED PLAYING COMPLETELY BECAUSE THEY GOT GRIEFED. Do this and I will shut my mouth. Rules are expendable unless they’re divine, so why not change them up? Why not implement a new set of rules that are a little more lax, and if you don’t like the idea, refute it with valid arguments, not by being a smart ass, it shows weakness in your argument. Again I’ll say, maybe everything I just said is horse shit, but that’s Allgood, show me where I went wrong and let’s come to a middle ground, I don’t care about being wrong I just want to find a solution and not be misunderstood/ misrepresented, because I’m not FOR griefing but I’m also not FOR admin abuse, I’m against both because both go into extreme and ruin the server, but have a middle grounddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd. Doc Watson literally has the word ‘fail nade’ in his name, IT happens. Here’s another suggestion, if an admin wants to ban someone for griefing or whatever it is they believe the person has done, they MUST provide evidence (demo) of the act, according to you it must be simple aprz, since we commit a bunch of offences per round, this task should be easy, so how about that, forget lessening the ban length, just have solid proof, and the person must cop it on the chin, because god knows I’ve been banned and kicked and slapped and slayed etc for doing absolute zilch, all because the admin woke up on the wrong side of the bed that day and that’s not fair. I’ve actually been unbanned a few times, why you ask? Because upon investigation I actually did nothing wrong, more proof of bias admins, and I appreciate the unbans Ofcourse, I’m just stressing the point that this culture does exist, and could be simply put to rest by requiring an admin bring solid proof for a ban, and vice versa, if a community member had a complaint about an admin, to also bring proof, other than that it’s just a he said she said, and when the admin is the authority, we know which direction the scale tips. Anyways I’m done on the toilet at work, it was good talking to you aprz, I actually miss you and the convos we used to have, I hope you’re doing well and talk soon!
            • Agree Agree x 2
            • Mar 29, 2015
              Posts
              Are you drunk? I almost had a fucking aneurism reading that. Same goes for that first wall of text.

              Post Merged, Nov 24, 2020
              As for my thoughts on this.

              I do agree admins have become a little trigger happy for bans. with how dead this game is we really shouldn't be 12 month banning for anything other then hacking and chargeback
              Warns and kicks take seconds to do (and if your going to keep going and going sure ban) BUT if I see someone like Hzrd or bapple or anyone i pretty much know, even a new player if its just me was to break my cade or nade it I'm going to rage on mic die laughing then go kill them mofos because for us its a lot of fun for us ( providing it isn't cucking or ruining a new players experience) as any of us can cade any room non stop every round and make people quit because they cant kill them. *caught* bowling *caught* Fucking corona.

              If they did that to a new player tho and you know better have had multiple warnings and bans then yes cya later. But there should be a line between the "grief" and "fun" when it comes to friends.


              Also Bout time for a mass unban :grin:
              • Agree Agree x 2
                Oxazebam, Nov 24, 2020 Last edited by Oxazebam, Nov 24, 2020
              • Jun 17, 2014
                Posts
                Good to see you back here to visit @Tommi! Hope you've been doing well my dude! :grin:

                Well I really don't know where to start here, so I guess going along with @Tommi's initial post, I do get what he's saying about the ban lengths, I understand where that's coming from, But keep in mind the bans only escalate to actual lengthy bans when one has offended the same offense multiple times. (Most bans start at 1 hour, then 2 hours, 1 day, 3 days, 1 week, 2 weeks, a month, 3 months, 6 months, Then finally 1 yr)

                Considering his idea of set-stone punishment lengths, I'm almost certain that documentation would turn into a complete nightmare to deal with, and additionally players would just break rules out of spitefulness knowing there's only 1 punishment, also us having to demo so many of these instances would just clutter up both SourceBans & our drives with large demos.

                As far as ban protests go, I'm willing to listen to anyone protest their ban as long as they're being civil & respectful and can make a commendable request with the supporting details that are relevant to plea their ban. Additionally; There is also the ability to upload a CSA thread and it can be discussed as a group into more detail if that's needed. The only time that we have players cases where it's just a no-chance-in-hell are bans for Child Pornography, Hacking, Malicious Threats towards Server/Staff, And the obsolete group of players with multiple 1 years bans for the same exact thing < 1 weeks after their unban (Take that underscore "______" guy for instance)

                I actually personally don't mind a bit of friendly fucking with each other in good-spirit really as long as it's not affecting anyone elses gameplay. But my opinion aside, It's still against the rules & they're to be enforced following proper escalation procedures. The downfall to messing with each other is that some players may see them doing that and have no idea it's just mutual fun, Then they get the assumption it's okay for them to do it too, or maybe get the assumption that the admins don't care at all, but if this has happened and an admin gave a warning regarding the matter, There should have been more then enough chance and time for you two to explain that you guys were just fooling with each other, well before anything escalates to being kicked>banned.

                As for the claims and name mentioning, I'd like to again like to mention we have a CSA (Contact Senior Admin) section of the forums where you can submit y'alls concerns or complains to us LSA+ directly and privately & we will deal with it accordingly to the best of our ability as a team in a joined group effort.

                Note - I'm super sleepy as I type my reply and I may have missed a couple key points y'all have made, but I'll be sure to come back to this post tomorrow & double read it and elaborate on anything I may have missed tonight.

                Hope you all are doing well & hope everyone has a safe & awesome Thanksgiving holiday!
                • Like Like x 1
                  Bapple™, Nov 24, 2020 Last edited by Bapple™, Nov 24, 2020
                • Mar 26, 2012
                  Posts
                  @Oxazebam I have some questions since you're an admin here.

                  Do we have written rules and procedures that are visible to admins, but not to players?

                  Do we have multiple systems documenting bad behavior? Forum? Contact Senior Admins? Discord? SourceBan?

                  When we start to document bad behavior, how often is it because it's the first time they ever broke a rule? When they make it to this documentation phase, is it not because they've broken the rules many times? I imagine some of the first documentation is because of SourceBan, after being banned, after the procedures were followed. I imagine that if a bad player's name is mentioned somewhere else, outside of SourceBan, it's because they know the system and keep avoiding a ban. What the heck is a "documentation ban" and how did that come to be?

                  Some of the people complaining today, have they've been banned because a admin saw them break a game? Or is it possible that the players that love these guys so much submitted a ban?

                  Considering demos, lack of admins, and the inability for admins to be everywhere at once to see player break rules, players being unfamiliar with submitting a ban or just too lazy to, do you think the times these guys were discipline are the only time they broke rules?
                  • Artistic Artistic x 1
                  • Feb 10, 2017
                    Posts
                    Can we stay on topic? Maybe? We just offered our opinions since that is what the forums is for. We're not mad or complaining, we are just voicing our opinions. There is no need to attack us or anyone for that matter. More than half of the people you are referring to don't even play here often anymore. We know we're not perfect and that we have broken rules. Everyone has but times have changed. This is basically a talk on how PF can improve for the future
                  • Jul 14, 2018
                    Posts
                    Hzrd literally hit the nail on the head, how can we improve PF for the future. This may involve doing a mass un-banning or it may not. This may involve reducing ban lengths or it may not. This may include a new rule set where the admin must provide a demo/ some sort of proof if they wish to ban a player or it may not. This may include a more lax attitude towards things that are grey areas or accidents or it may not. This is a discussion, where you guys can put input towards putting forward a better gaming experience for the community and not lynching every player for getting out of hand. To add to my point about demos, if the rule breaking of a particular player is as persistent as you say, then quickly jumping in spec (easy for admins) and demoing them breaking a rule should be easy ? They don’t have to sit there for hours like ‘Seeker’ and have 10 billion terabytes of demo footage to go through. It should be simple, you see me nade a cade, jump in spec and try and catch it on vid if I’m so ‘persistent’ as you say, that way we can put it all to rest, it’s no ones word against anyone’s, it’s simply a clear demo of someone breaking a rule and copping the punishment. to add to your point bapple, I didn’t mean to mention names as a way of complaining, it was simply out of example, I’m not going to sift through all the demos on my computer to prove my points. The fact that we’re human and can stuff up and make a bad call or misjudge something is enough for you to give me benefit of the doubt and believe me when I say that admins have been unjust in the past, but that’s all water under the bridge, I’m not asking for anything except that it be addressed and solved. Also I’ve been good, I’m expecting a baby boy due in December, moved into a new place with my wife and finally settled thank god. But I do wish I could jump on PF from time to time having learnt from my past mistakes of griefing/ ban evasion, but that’s upto the admins discression whether I’m ‘fit to play again’ or whether or not I should be un-banned. I remember giving an appeal for my previous ban and it being denied, now this is my second ban and as I said it was on Lila Panic, the round started, I went to the top level, shot out the vendi to the ramp, jumped onto it, then hopped onto the roof and then shot the cade off as per usual to not leave a step for zombies to climb up and then BOOM 12 months ban because this is appearently Griefing because I shot the vendi off before the zombies turned, now you can call this an appeal and I’m sure you’ll say ‘we have a protest ban section for this’, but I’m not bothered getting my hopes up in order to be declined again, so I explain to you my situation here and you can do with it as you will, although it would be great for it to be lifted however I’m not going to beg. I know what I’ve contributed to this community in terms of laughs and conversation and simply good times, but if that situation provides enough justification to rid me of the server for 12 months then so be it. I’ve just started this thread not for sympathy, but simply to allow the community to hash out any problems or give any suggestions with regards to PF admins/ PF’s future with regards to its community.
                  • Jun 17, 2014
                    Posts
                    Hell man I believe you 100%, I can openly admit that I myself have been unjust before, Mistakes DO happen, Not always are even we aware of it until it's fair to be pointed out and brought up for discussion (Depending on the context, maybe even privately so we don't end up having a community free-for-all) and if it's an ongoing admin mistake that's became an issue, it needs to be brought up in a CSA thread so we can give it some proper attention and get it squashed. This gives us all the best chance at approaching it and defusing the situation for the better without any real flames still being kindled if that makes sense.

                    I do too man, We live and we learn and I personally am not opposed to the idea of lifting your ban under whatever the conditions would be, But that decision ultimately is above and beyond me. (Color hint, Lol.) I will take it into full consideration if you're willing to bring it up in a CSA, That way myself and fellow staff members have a chance to discuss it over privately with you as a team, It's just a matter of sharing & validating why you believe you should be.

                    Yeah brotha I understand that, That's the reason why I initially moved it here to Server Suggestions sub forum from where it was initially posted and attached the "Suggestion" prefix next to the title, It should stay here as long as everyone stays respectful & civil with each other & keeps the topic within relevance of the thread's suggestion. Otherwise; This thread will be locked or moved to a more appropriate forum section.

                    Man that's awesome to hear! Congrats to you & your wife, Sending my best wishes as you bring your little one into this world! :party:
                    Bapple™, Nov 24, 2020 Last edited by Bapple™, Nov 24, 2020
                  • Mar 26, 2012
                    Posts
                    I was on topic. It's not my fault that you cannot make the connection.

                    I hold you guys responsible for many players not becoming a part of this community or causing members of this community to leave so I am skeptical of you guys talking about improving pF and looking out for it's future. You guys terrorized our players and admins, and it infuriates me that you guys blame us and our lenient system. Your "valid suggestion" on "how PF can improve for the future" is nothing more than trying to work the system hence I am pointing fingers. That's based on my experience back when I was active here. If you guys have changed, great! I think a lot of you guys were nice to me, I didn't hate most of you, but it sucked being restricted by our system and watching you guys kill the server. By the time you guys got banned, we'd lose a lot of players and kill the server for the night. It was awful. I hate what you guys did to our servers.

                    If you are experiencing progressive discipline (ie increase time of ban beyond 1 hour to 1 day), you've already broken the rules many time. If you are getting to the point that you are getting month long bans, you've already broken it dozen of times and likely have some evidence like demos and server logs demonstrating that you guys continuously break rules. If you're getting the point that we are "skipping steps" in the procedures (ie no longer warning, just an immediate ban), you've already tested the limits and have probably broken the rules hundreds of times with lots of existing evidence already!

                    Most people can follow the rules. We have frequent flyers here who have never broken the rule or some with like 1 or 2 bans after like a decade of playing. I don't understand why you guys act like it is so hard to follow the rules?

                    For the record... if the griefing is consensual, I think it's fine. One of the things we teach our admins, emphasize, is to try to act with common sense. Back when ZE was our power ship server, always 64/64 and you could really only get in with donator or admin, we had a rule "No bhopping". It used to be debated whether it should be allowed even if bhopping had no advantage eg bhopping in circles for fun, in a cage. We used to worry that if we allowed admins to make that decisions or told players it was sometimes OK, they'd always try to do it, and other players who didn't read the rules joining might think it's always OK when it isn't. I banned someone for bhopping in circles in a cage that they couldn't get out of. To be fair, the guy got a warning and a kick before he was banned I think? I know I followed procedures strictly. I likely did a bunch of things to try to warn him that he was going to get banned and he did it anyways. Looking back though, it was a stupid bad. He was in a cage and couldn't do anything. So I trained new admins to use common sense, but like usual, everyone has a different opinion on something. Me hearing a slurp noise for a second on the mic is no big deal while another admin warn > discipline for it. I think if I was chilling with you and was like "I dare you to throw a nade on our cade" and you did it, that would not be warn > discipline worthy. Now, if you gave no indication before hand, the admin acts, and warn > discipline happens... I don't want "it's consensual". We can't read minds. If it hurts another player eg it's you, me, and another player we don't know in the cade and either one of us destroy the cade to grief each other jokingly... we griefed that player and it wasn't consensual. See how this is a problem? And when you try to apply this to other rules... you can't really apply it just like you can't say it's OK to use a racial slur because of your skin color. If that's the goal of this post, that's OK, but I see a lot more in the post. I see complaints about lack of evidence, admins targeting players to discipline them, that progressive discipline is unfair and unjust, and that is bullshit.

                    At the same time, Tommi, I forgot to touch on admins targeting or trying to ban players. I've spoke to you about the culture and balance of being an admin. New admins might be more eager to try to admin because they became an admin and want to do a good job. We have a promotion system that judges people based on their bans and sometimes people get caught up in numbers rather than quality. This is usually a temporary issue and something that phases off. I am guessing that is what I talked to you about. I'm a paramedic so a good example is a new paramedic might want to jump more calls, be on a busy unit, and see a bunch of action. An older paramedic just waits until they are dispatch and might jump a call to help the system. Same thing for a police officer. They might want to go to robberies, assaults, catch bad guys. After awhile, they just chill and wait until they are dispatched. That's really the only thing I can think of with admins trying to ban people. I am not familiar with any admin who is actively trying to ban people right now, especially since I think a lot of us who have been admins have been admins for long time and also kind of just stuck in their level since we aren't as busy anymore to really need to promote people upward. The demand isn't there. We've had admins here or there target people, but they are usually talked to when it is noticed. I've seen those admins step down before when talked to because they don't agree with us saying back off. It happens, but I don't think it is a wide spread issue or an active problem.

                    Edit: I see you're familiar with an admin who was recording while AFK. That was like a video camera watching our business. Something happens, we'd go back in the demo and try to see if we can see it. We only looked back if a complaint was brought back to us... That's too much to footage to be actively looking for problems...
                    • Artistic Artistic x 1
                    • Jul 14, 2018
                      Posts
                      "I hold you guys responsible for many players not becoming a part of this community or causing members of this community to leave"

                      Again aprz, I bring up my challenge, bring me FIVE testimonies of this so called hoard of people who left because of our mercilessness.

                      As hzrd said, his last ban was like 2 years ago, and as for me, my reason for being banned is actually laughable, I mean using a vendi as a boost to get to the roof on lila panic and then shooting it off before humans turn to zombies deserves a 12 month ban for 'Griefing'? come on don't kid yourself.

                      To lay the death of PF at our feet is just ridiculous, if we ever came on a server and people left, it was because we out-gunned the whole server with a few good shooters. Is being good now a crime on PF? Isn't that was caused this bond in the community anyways? The whole competitiveness of who's top dog in the server? So if we now come on and we make some people cry/leave due to our skill is this now our fault? In my experience it's actually been motivation for people to come back and get good.

                      "We have frequent flyers here who have never broken the rule or some with like 1 or 2 bans after like a decade of playing." This is probably refering to people that literally sit in a cade and stare at a wall for the whole round or sit in spec and just chill and talk. I have no problem with these players, but to use them types is disingenuous, you know that how I play is run and good and by default accidents and mistakes are made which will result in me more likely being banned (accidental fail nade etc).

                      Now AGAIN I say, i'm not asking to be immune to bans, they exist for a good reason, just don't abuse it. I've had so many admins literally out to get me because they burnt at the fact that I would spawn trap them or always hop into their little safe haven and kill them every round, instead of getting good they abused their power.

                      I do agree with you on the whole consentual griefing in front of new players, and I understand how that would be a shit show for admins so we can nip that in a bud real quick and dismiss it. However you bapple and oxa make a good point about harmless one on one griefs that aren't necessarily noticed by the majority like for example when it's dead and only a few players on and a sly grief is done between me and oxa or bapple or whoever for that matter, just friendly banter.

                      As for bapple i'm not sure what 'CSA' is, but i'll pursue it if you think it's worth while, I want to see if me as a community member can actually be un-banned or if it's just there for show. I appreciate the response and I hope all is well with you!

                      Also the reason why my previous paragraphs look so jumbled together is because I tried posting it like this to be easier to read but whenever I would post it from my phone all the sentences would just glue all together so I hope this way it's kind of easier to read.
                      • Like Like x 1
                      • Jun 17, 2014
                        Posts
                        CSA is "Contact Senior Admins", Just click here to take you directly there.

                        Hey that's what I'm here for man, Always happy to help! And all's been well for the most part, just waiting out this pandemic to the best of my ability yo. :doctor:
                      • Not seductive
                        This message by Not seductive has been removed from public view. Deleted by Bapple™, Nov 24, 2020, Reason: Not Needed / Irrelevant.
                        Nov 24, 2020
                      • Isnukamex
                        This message by Isnukamex has been removed from public view. Deleted by Isnukamex, Nov 24, 2020, Reason: Not relevant..
                        Nov 24, 2020
                      • Feb 27, 2012
                        Posts
                        This is only a response to the OP and not to any of the other replies to topic.

                        I don't really know where this post is coming from. If there was a particular incident that happened then i'm not familiar with it. Regardless, let's get on with it.

                        How do you police this correctly though? With how often y'all especially tend to change names, how the heck am I, let alone some other random half as active admin, supposed to keep up with that? It's hard to justify letting it go if its between friends when y'all (from here on called The Silly Squad, or TSS) have such a history. Some players won't even complain when they're griefed for two common reasons:
                        1. they're just beyond annoyed when it happens to them all the time
                        2. they don't know any better about what just happened
                        Reason i bring those up is because of my point; how are we supposed to keep up with who's in TSS and who isn't? Seems like a way to justify griefing and make it will open up so many avenues to more drama and bullshit. However on the flip side of this, sometimes even admins will do this to each other (me and aphilion will troll each other, bapple and bowling will troll each other, etc) and they know it's all in good fun.
                        I'm not really sure where I stand on this but I would say i'd be for the side that if it's obvious that:
                        1. they're friends
                        2. they're not complaining about it
                        3. nobody else is actually affected by it (i.e. tommi blocks the ladder so hzrd can't get up for 3 and a half seconds, and nobody else is around or trying to get up that ladder)
                        then what is the issue? Can friends not have fun with each other? As long as some randy ass player named xXn00bCSpr0Xx isn't affected then what is the actual harm?
                        Lastly, i do agree admins shouldn't be going out of their way making it a witch hunt to try and ban players. While i can understand why some people hate TSS and that is totally justified for what some of the members have done to players, it still shouldn't be a witch hunt all the time. I've witnessed admins sit in spec and watch certain players the entire time and just waste hours of their life to see nothing bad happen. This will just lead the admin to going after technicalities and making something big out of nothing (such as tommi's example of someone actually making a genuine accident and shooting at someones cade without realizing when they're actually just trying to shoot a zm. I've done it without realizing, and i'm sure many of you have). My advice to admins is to just wait. People who deliberately grief will get cocky and comfortable and fuck up, and bury themselves. You will get your juicy moment, or someone else will catch them red handed blatantly trolling/griefing on demo. We just need to have patience and the problem will take care of itself; It always does.


                        These are just my thoughts on the topic and is in no way any decision or direction for any level of admin to follow.
                        • Like Like x 1
                        • Jul 14, 2018
                          Posts
                          Yeah no doubt tony if you read my last post on this thread I mention about how I agree that 'consentual griefing' will be a shit show for admins.
                        • Dec 27, 2012
                          Posts
                          Being an admin is just like being a regular player, just with some added responsibilities and privileges. Everyone is (read should be) on an equal ground regardless of server status, be it social or administrative. I feel that many people tend to forget this, so let this be a reminder for those who never knew or forgot. Being an admin is not the same as being a police and it also doesn't make you above nor below the server rules - you're the same as a regular.

                          Screwing around with people you already know is fine with getting griefed shouldn't be a bannable offense. I've had admins grief me, from level 1 admins all the way up to management - and guess what? They knew I was fine with it, that's why there was no punishment for anyone doing it. If an admin can grief a regular, both being in-the-know, why can't a regular grief a regular if the same applies for them? It makes no sense and it also doesn't support that everyone is on an equal ground regardless of status.

                          Have fun within the servers rules and don't pick beefs you can't chew. This goes both ways, regulars and admins. We want people to have fun, so that they come back for more - especially now when CS:S is dying.
                          • Agree Agree x 2
                            Vicarious, Nov 24, 2020 Last edited by Vicarious, Nov 24, 2020
                          • Apr 9, 2007
                            Posts
                            Not using your enter key is not peace, nor love.

                            The gist from what I've gleaned from 2 paragraphs in completely disparate posts is you're asking for admins to be sensitive to your nuances. If you'd like to open a separate thread asking for us to be relaxed with our rules to support your kinkiness that's another issue entirely. Watching people be caned, or abused is not what we've trained our staff for, and was not the norm for a long time. If that's changed, that's okay but lets address that separately if this is indeed a common ask. In the meantime, bondage, abuse, and other sexuality just holds no presence in our rules so this is invalid.

                            From what I've seen here, there's nothing to be done. If you're looking to be gimp'd that's another situation, and thus another thread.

                            Ironically, :handcuffs:.
                            • Winner Winner x 3
                            • Artistic Artistic x 1
                            Thread Status:
                            Not open for further replies.