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Obamacare

Discussion in Everything & Anything started by Benvolio, Jul 5, 2012

Do you support Obamacare?

Yes 19 vote(s) 55.9%
No 15 vote(s) 44.1%
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  1. Mar 4, 2012
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  2. May 14, 2011
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    TL DR but is this gunna be free health care like the NHS (National Health Service) in UK?
  3. Jul 20, 2010
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    It technically still is unconstitutional the government can't tax you for not buying a certain item. Which is what could happen after the supreme court ruling that the government can mandate this but as a tax. When the taxing comes into effect you'll see lawsuits against the law since you can't file a lawsuit on a tax until it has taken into effect which is by 2014. Then if it's still by then the supreme court will hear it again and if the court stays the same why it might overturn it, or it won't the chief justice doesn't want the court to be pulled into politics with that law which is why he ruled the way he did. Bottom line the government can't force you to buy a product and by imposing a tax "fine" on you for not buying said product is against the law. Just have to wait till 2014.
  4. Feb 18, 2011
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    Obamacare is a very good thing in my opinion. People that say they don't like it just don't want to pay for healthcare. When you don't have healthcare and get sick, who pays for it? We do. Money that should be going to the government so they can get us out of debt instead goes to people who chose not to insure themselves, which is foolish. My dad worked in downtown Chicago in a hospital as a nurse for a while, and he used to get these things called patient drops, which are patients who get pushed out of cabs with gunshot wounds and whatnot and the cab was hailed by staff at other hospitals who refused to take people without insurance. Would you ever risk that having no insurance? I know I wouldn't, which is why insurance is essential. For those who can't afford it, Obamacare will expand Medicaid, so you can still get insurance. I see no faults in this other than its expense, which will be hefty, but it will pay off in the end.


    Also, I hope this debate thread doesn't explode. This could be interesting. :razz:
  5. Mar 4, 2012
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    I'm not too familiar with the NHS but basically Obamacare forces people to buy into the government's health care plan and if you don't you get penalized with a tax.
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Jul 20, 2010
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      Like health insurance is that expensive....... I can get full coverage for about 600 dollars a year for myself. Pretty damn cheap imo, my dad has health insurance for himself, my mom and my little brother for the same price and its full coverage lol. It's not expensive people are just too lazy to get jobs or spend money on shit they don't need.
      • Agree Agree x 3
      • Mar 4, 2012
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        It's completely unconstitutional. While they call the penalty for not buying, a "tax", it's really not and even if it was it is a direct tax which must be apportioned and in this situation it is not making it unconstitutional anyway.

        Where in the Constitution does it say the government has the right to force people to buy their healthcare?

        My favorite Democratic president is Grover Cleveland. Why? Because during one of his terms in office Congress attempted give Texan farmers 10,000 dollars in relief due to a drought. Cleveland vetoed it because he said it was unconstitutional and not the job of the gov't to provide the farmers with help. He then proceeded to set up a charity and out of his own pocket book contributed and he ended up raising 100,000 dollars for the farmers.

        To think in this day and age a Democratic president vetoing something like that? It would never happen.

        Anyway, you think that this will end up costing the government less but it will not. Whenever the government subsidizes an industry (education for example, the housing market) prices sky rocket because the government effectively eliminates all competition. Who can compete with the government? Competition keeps prices low and without you'll see them rise. Why do you think going to college is so expensive now? It's because gov't guarantees student loans. If they did not do that very few people could afford to go to college and university's would have to slash prices.
      • Sep 26, 2010
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        It's against the law for people to be denied treatment on any basis. Hospitals, doctors, and the average individual end up paying for an individual who doesn't have insurance when they're treated in a medical institution. It's hilarious when people argue this a move towards socialism considering we've already been practicing this in our health system, but it's also more humorous when you realize what the major causes of death are in the U.S. One might think the leading cause of death is heart disease, but there's one that even tops that! Can you guess what it is?

        Our own health care system.

        "Iatrogenic deaths-that is, deaths induced inadvertently by a physician or surgeon or by medical treatment or diagnostic procedures-in the U.S. annually is 783,936. These statistics are presented in a report appropriately titled 'Death by Medicine,' co-authored by three medical doctors and two doctors of philosophy. In comparison to these nearly 784,000 deaths per year attributed to iatrogenic consequences, the second leading cause of death, heart disease, was responsible for just under 700,000 deaths, while the third leading cause of mortality was cancer, accounting for 550,000 deaths. These figures emphasize that medicine, itself, might rightfully be designated as public health enemy number one." - from "Spontaneous Evolution" by Bruce H. Lipton, PH.D., and Steve Bhaerman

        If we wish to thrive as a species, we should seriously look at our cells and practice their own habits since over 70 trillion seem to get along just fine.
        • Like Like x 1
        • Agree Agree x 1
        • Mar 19, 2012
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          I believe its against the law to deny anyone at an emergency room..
        • Nov 29, 2010
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          The healthcare up in canada is free as a result from the taxes, I really don't get why Americans make such a huge fuss over this. Especially the ones that are living in hard times, after seeing a documentary of the guy who made "Super size me" live off of minimal wage jobs, it really baffles how high they charge for health care.
          • Like Like x 1
          • Sep 26, 2010
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            BE READY FOR A MASSIVE MIGRATION FOR 1) ALL OF THE GEESE YOU SEND DOWN HERE SEASONALLY 2) ANGRY AMERICANS YARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
            [IMG]

            In all seriousness, health care costs are ridiculous due to lobbyists and pharmaceutical companies. Oh and let's not forget how worthless the dollar really is
            [IMG]
          • Mar 4, 2012
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            Mostly because it is unconstitutional. The Constitution is everything this country was founded on. Breaking that with major legislation like this causes people to get in an up-roar. They're basically taking away a little bit of your freedom away.

            Secondly, your healthcare system (as well as the UK's) is horrible. People come to the States to get treated because the waiting lists are so long. And when the government says something is "free" they really means it costs way more and you're just indirectly paying for it through taxes.

            Lastly, minimum wage isn't meant to be lived off of. Minimum wage does no good. Literally no good. All it does is destroy jobs. It's why you don't see people pumping your gas for you or bag boys taking your groceries out to your car for you anymore.
          • Aug 1, 2011
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            With the understanding that this is the "Anything and Everything" section of the forums.

            What made you think that using the pF forums as a staging area to express your political views is a good idea? This is a Multi-Gaming community, not a political forum. There are plenty of people in pF, playing on pF servers and frequenting the forums that aren't American and don't give a damn about American politics.

            The general rule of thumb is video games, politics and religion do not mix so don't stir the pot, it only causes problems.
            • Winner Winner x 1
            • Apr 9, 2007
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              And for those that can't be covered? The companies that don't want to cover people due to some 'high risk' situation? Should they just die if something happens?

              I don't know, I find the controversy a bit ridiculous. We basically have the equivalent of 'Romney Care', where it's done at the Province level, and not the country. I can see some states opting out, or failing to do this, which would cause a big issue. I guess I'm a bit biased, I have asthma. I haven't had an inhaler for a while, but that's because the air isn't as polluted here, and I'm near the ocean, so the dust is typically low. A few years ago (3?) I tried an inhaler again because I was having issues on my runs. Said inhaler cost me $3 and made a difference. Few years before that I had my appendix taken out, that was peanuts. A member on our forums broke their arm or leg 4? years ago. Their cost was $1400~ just to go to the hospital and get a cast. That's ridiculous. Another person who I know, his dad had a heart attack. Guess what happened? The insurance company 'opted out' and claimed that his pre-existing condition (being old) wasn't known at the time. Think any of this is bullshit, I'm pretty sure you can find similar stories on the internet, or even in your family.

              I don't believe anyone intends to get sick. Not being able to count on the fact that in your darkest hour, if you're unconscious and brought to the Hospital... If you don't have health insurance they're still required to bring you in. When you wake up, if you wake up, and have that huge bill sitting there, I guess that's you?... That's a simple situation I don't want to be in. A great number of people can't afford to pay X, and paying the flat fee for coverage is definitely the way to go.
              • Agree Agree x 2
              • Mar 4, 2012
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                If you want to move this to the No Count Section go ahead. No need to make a big deal out of it. And no one is forcing you to read any of this are they? No. So once again no need to make a big deal out of it. No post on this thread has been hostile or heated in any way, shape or form I don't see the problem.
              • Mar 23, 2012
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                Competition in the healthcare industry would probably work if the insurance and pharmaceutical companies had some semblance of morals. I also fail to see how competition would benefit healthcare (Brand X healthcare is better than Brand Y healthcare).

                I also find it pointless to compare the healthcare industry to the housing market or the educational system. Buy a house and can't afford it? Then sell it, or in your worst case, declare bankruptcy. Can't afford to go to college? Get a job and save up your money until you can afford it. Get sick or need surgery and can't afford it? You're going to go completely broke, or your inability to pay for treatment could leave you dead. You know what the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy is in the United States? Medical expenses. These are peoples lives that we're talking about, not a house or a car or an education.
              • Aug 18, 2006
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                I have mixed opinions about it. What bothers me most is the unconstitutionality of fining people that don't have Health Insurance.
              • Apr 9, 2007
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                The fine gives them health insurance.
              • Mar 23, 2012
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                That creates 2 scenarios:

                Case 1: Pay the "fine" to receive health insurance. When you get sick, the insurance pays for it.
                Case 2: Don't pay for health insurance, then get crushed by medical expenses when you get sick.
              • May 11, 2011
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                the base idea of fixing healthcare is a good idea but this is not fixing this is taxing the people and screwing the system up even more and this will not even cover most of the poor
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