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Questionable Admin Conduct

Discussion in Admin Abuse started by DeathDealer, Apr 26, 2012

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  1. Mar 4, 2012
    A certain incident earlier today (4/26), at around 5:30-5:40pm (pst), made myself and other players in the server feel "abused" or mistreated by server admin Harvey. It transpired on the map zm_playtime on zombie server 1. In one part of this map there is a stairwell that leads to the upper roofs of some buildings. In the round that it affected me, Harvey had shot a couch and table into this stairwell impeding a group of players (3-5) from using this stairwell to reach other parts of the map. When this group, including me, shot it out of the way so we could move on he froze and then kicked us claiming it was cade breaking. In most cases I would agree but this stairwell is the only way I know of to get to that other part of the map and thus think it falls under the third rule in the zombie mod server No blocking/inhibiting access to areas of the maps. Upon rejoining the game and voicing our disdain for this action we only received a reply in admin chat to the effect that if we shoot it out again (repeat offenders) we would be banned. The ban warning is the main thing that made me bring it up. Because in the round following the one previously described, Harvey teleported himself to this location and shot the props in place. After doing so he waited there for players and go figure when one wanted to move on he threw a nade at the "cade". That player along with another that simply went up the stairs was frozen and then kicked. I have a demo from spectate of the second round though it starts either just as he teleports or just after. It seems to me to be a questionable use of admin powers when from my understanding a rule was broken in the first place by the admin.

    Demo is on http://www.4shared.com/get/ZJKFzg8r/harvey.html rar format, it's a pretty short demo. Also attached file to this post.

    P.S. Sorry for the long message, just wanted to describe the situation as best I could.

    Attached Files:

  2. Dec 7, 2010
    I have repeatedly warned everyone to stop breaking barricades. This situation occurred three consecutive rounds to which I had to threaten to ban to all individuals who continued this behavior. As a experienced player and a donator you should know well enough not to break barricades and not to use erroneous excuses to justify this behavior. Since you have clearly been warned multiple times regarding the consequences of your actions and your persistent flaunting of pF rules, I will have no other options but to escalate its enforcement.

    I strongly advise you to stop purposely breaking pF rules for your own amusement.
  3. Harvey
    This message by Harvey has been removed from public view. Deleted by Harvey, Apr 26, 2012, Reason: My first post essentially covers the points. This was just repetitive on my part..
    Apr 26, 2012
  4. Apr 9, 2007
    Can you show console history of the teleport?

    Picture would be best.
  5. Mar 4, 2012
    Unfortunately I had already closed my game after recording a demo, and I don't know of any way to access previous console sessions. I assumed there was some server side log of all admin activities in which case the teleport would certainly coincide within 30 seconds of revo being kicked. The main issue I was trying to convey was that Harvey was basically screwing over his teammates and then punishing them for rectifying the situation. However, from what I'm drawing from Hervey's reply, not breaking barricades supersedes the rule not permitting blocking of teammates going to other areas of the map since it is referred to as an "erroneous excuse". I may be at fault for that case because the rule may only apply to a person and not props. As for multiple warnings that had been the first round I was involved with removing the props from the stairwell and it certainly wasn't for my own amusement. To clarify I only mentioned repeat offenders as if I had shot it out again I would have fallen under that category and been banned. Thanks for removing the earlier post and keeping it more professional.
  6. Feb 21, 2007
    Searched the logs, anything relevant is below:
  7. Dec 7, 2010
    Slowly reviewing the demo, it clearly demonstrates that revo had destroyed the barricade by shooting and throwing a nade. Although unintentional, the error I may have committed in the 3rd round would have been the removal of surferboi since he immediately followed revo's arrival. If anything it was an error on my part assuming that surferboi's participated in breaking barricades as he had demonstrated his propensity to do so in the previous rounds.
    Harvey, Apr 27, 2012 Last edited by Harvey, Apr 27, 2012
  8. Mar 4, 2012
    Ive been following this thread since death started it yesterday and I can say on behalf of death that he is a mature player who follows the rules at least while I have been on. That particular spot on zm_playtime can be caded easily but but is a high traffic route to the roofs where most want to go. Cading it and being upset that individuals break it is foolish since you know players will go that way. In this situation, you are prohibiting players from enjoying that area and punishing them for trying to get there. Line 445 of Rets post is questionable. Teleporting there does not even allow players the chance to get to the roof area before you.
  9. Dec 7, 2010
    I have to say that it is debatable as it was used to block the stairway to the building's roof. There are many other areas of the same map which serveres the same function, but I do understand your point.

    I would agree with you if that was the case, but let me assure you that it was not used to teleport to that area.
    Harvey, Apr 27, 2012 Last edited by Harvey, Apr 27, 2012
  10. Mar 4, 2012
    I used a stopwatch in conjunction with the start of my demo to try to get a timing available since I did not observe a round timer in the demo. Approximately 26.5 seconds after the demo starts reva/revo gets frozen. If this time is subtracted from the logs time of when the freeze occurred to the time of teleport it leaves a discrepancy of roughly 2.5 to 3 seconds (29seconds pass in log between those 2 events). Had Harvey not teleported to the location I claimed in my OP then how did he make it to the location shown in the demo in less than 3 seconds, since it is claimed the teleport was to elsewhere. Four events transpire in my demo and can be timed from the start to reasonable prove that which happens in the demo corresponds to lines 454 - 457 in the log. The times I logged (give or take some tens of second for reaction time) from the start of the demo were 26.50 seconds revo frozen, 29.82sec surferboi frozen, 32.30 seconds revo kicked, 33.52 second surerboi kicked. If the times based off the start of the demo are related to the corresponding events in the log and subtracted from the time difference of the teleport then it ends up with all of them being approximately 3 seconds different in time. With a little deductive reasoning, the timing of the demo put against the log points to the teleport being in the location of the demo.

    Again, I'd like to reiterate that the teleport isn't the main thing I've been protesting, but the unnecessary punishing of multiple players for wanting to access the part of the map purposely blocked by the admin. I was intending for the demo to show the location on the map and help convey that it was a repeated action on the part of the admin that differed from what should reasonably be punishable. To add credibility to my OP, other lines in the log also support what was described, 3-5 players being kicked though apparently it was 6 and the escalation of potential punishment for involvement. I apologize for not posting earlier but, I was very busy over the weekend and hoped someone else would notice the timing of the demo corresponding with the log. I honestly don't expect much to come out of this, the situation just left me with a feeling of being unwarranted.
  11. Dec 7, 2010
    So if I understand you correctly, you feel that access to this yellow building and its roof should never be barricaded?


    (Inside view of stairs in the yellow building)

  12. Feb 1, 2011
    I wouldn't say never. But if you cade it at the beginning of the round when people are still scrambling, expect it to be broken.
  13. Dec 7, 2010
    In the example given in the demo, the barricade was broken at least 15 seconds after the completed construction of the barricade. I would consider that breaking barricades. What would your definition be?
  14. Feb 1, 2011
    It's certainly breaking barricades. However, I believe context plays a part in this particular scenario. This stairway is the most obvious way up to many noobs, which often comprise 25%+ of the server population. Barricading this spot at the beginning of the round, and thus blocking this inevitable flow of traffic, is just begging for your cade to be blown to pieces. Due the this extenuating circumstance, I believe anyone who decides to cade this unfortunate spot should just deal with the consequences and consider finding a different spot amount the ample selection that zm_playtime offers.
  15. Apr 9, 2007
    Wait... So Harvey teleported, then used his @aim bind to prevent players from reaching the roof by freezing, and or kicking them?

    Nvm I see.
    Line 441: L 04/26/2012 - 19:40:39: "Harvey<7166><STEAM_0:1:5458796><TERRORIST>" committed suicide with "world"
    Line 445: L 04/26/2012 - 19:40:46: [teleport.smx] Harvey has teleported himself/herself.

    He legitimately died, then teleported back into his barricade and stopped the people from getting in when he wasn't there. If you're not inside the barricade, you can't defend it and claim cade breaking... Should this be clarified in the rules?
  16. Nov 11, 2011
    Being an admin, this concerns me. If I know that there is a cade built, and no human is behind it, I'm allowed to break it?

    And dillinger, are you stating that cade breaking is now acceptable on certain parts of the map and each case is unique? This opens up way too many loopholes for people to exploit. How is it acceptable if I spawn close and set up my cade and someone else wants to go through it by breaking it? I say they are shit out of luck...not "expect broken cades..."
  17. Apr 9, 2007
    If you see an assortment of props and you're certain there's no use for them. I see no reason why another human is unable to use the barricade.

    Completely different if its someones active barricade, in this case it was most certainly not. This does seem to be a legitimate claim against Harvey.
  18. Feb 1, 2011
    Doesn't seem like you really read my post. Like I said, I believe this spot to be a rare exception to our rule due to the nature of the way the map is laid out. Since everyone and their brother uses that stairway as a path to the other part of the map, you would be retarded to cade it and deserves the consequences if you do so. There shouldn't even be props there.
  19. Nov 11, 2011
    Ah, I apologize for misunderstanding your statement. This will be a bit rough to explain to players if and when this happens on zm_playtime unless @GRUDGE decides to edit the map to conform to this rare exception.
  20. Jul 28, 2011
    When I originally made the spot I figured it might be an issue, so I made a second way to get up. Unfortunately, this second way to get up requires teamwork to stack up, and now I have realized that teamwork is a lot to ask for from most people who play zm :razz:
    IF I do edit this spot, it won't be immediately... I haven't really opened hammer in a couple weeks due to life and its happenings, and I also have some other things on other maps I need to fix. :poop:
  21. Nov 11, 2011
    I can always edit it for you, PM vmf away! I've been on a map editing spree, too much free time on my hands.
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