Welcome to PlagueFest.com! Log in or Sign up to interact with the Plague Fest community.
  1. Welcome Guest! to interact with the community and gain access to all the site's features.

Suggestion: BUFF Zombies

Discussion in CS:S Zombie Escape started by Kaemon, Aug 28, 2012

  1. Jan 11, 2011
    Posts
    First of all, before stating to say things like "We fail enough as it is!" think about it... When you lose a round, what was the reason? Most of the time you failed to hold (usually a zombie sneaked in); someone did something stupid (like edging) or many people were killed by the map boss/traps/climbs; not because you couldn't kill the zombies.
    This is about being fair to the zombie players, even if it could increase very sightly the difficulty, I believe it wouldn't be noticeable on most rounds/maps; and would make some easy-maps enjoyable again.

    And that is what this is about. Not buffing the zombies for the shake of buffing them; nor to increase the difficulty and making the server settings harder for humans (as mentioned; win/lose ratio would probably remain the same); but to be FAIR with the zombies; that so many Server Settings and even Mappers seem to forget are players aswel.

    So, with those things in mind, here are my suggestions:

    - First of all, increase the HP of zombies. pF zombies are REALLY REALLY WEAK, and will die in almost any situation where they are under constant fire, even without being cornered or anything, just trying to move towards the hold. I would dare to say the HP of almost all zombie classes should be doubled. (Can I have the current values?)
    This "issue" is specially noticeable when the map being played has an AFK Killer or just doesn't have Shortcuts/Teleports; making 95% of the rounds very boring; with easy-to-kill zombies that won't come back nor recive reinforcements. The HP you use is currently like "If a zombie tries to get us, we kill him", but the zombie shouldn't die, not everytime. More than half of the maps don't support brining that zombie back into the actual game.

    - The Regen... I'm not sure what's the Zombie Regen actually; and I believe it was buffed some time ago and seems to be fine right now; but I would like to know the numbers.

    - Reduce the Ignite Time of the Naplam Grenades. I mentioned this to many people/admins, one at a time; so I guess its time for me to post it on the forums where it should be discussed. I believe the current time is 7 seconds... Thats ridiculous and way too long. 4 humans can keep all the zombies ignited for half a minute...
    I believe I don't need to say how annoying is being ignited on CS:S, everyone knows that is not fun. Also, its over the top for humans; unlike most servers, pF grenades don't have a Fail-Factor because they don't push the zombies; and even being imposible to fail with them they reward more than grenades on any other server (7 seconds of ignite!).
    On top of that, since some CS:S patches ago igniting zombies will hurt/slow non-igniting zombies that touch them (or humans, but you get the point), so you are even "igniting" zombies you didn't hit with the grenade.
    I strongly suggest to reduce it to 3 seconds; wich I believe is a fair time for both Zombies and Humans. I know you will think 3 seconds is too low; but its good enough in my opinion (specially with Fail-Nades disabled); grenades should be a help, not a we-can't-fail-for-7-seconds ticket; and not something that on its own, without even needing to shot, will make sure no zombie catches you in half a minute or more when just running.
    Knowing that you probably won't agree with reducing it 3 seconds I would settle with 4-5; but 7 is really over the top. I don't know you; but when I get ignited as a zombie trying to get close to a hold on pF, I just hide for 7 seconds... Just to get ignited again by a second grenade...

    - Bloodsucker Model: I like/love this model. Thats how I rule: the bigger/uglier it is, the more I like it! And I keep using this model even if its in a clear disadvantage over every other model. And being a VIP Class, I think it shouldn't be weaker than the default skins. Its cooler, yeah, but thats it.
    Now, I don't know the exact values; and he probably has more HP and less Knockback than other skins; but the difference seems so small that it doens't make up for his huge size at all. He has sightly more health (I presume) and suffers less knockback (I presume) but since he takes more bullets (bullets that would miss on other models would still hit BloodSucker), is like he didn't have anything at all; and giving up the "surprise" factor with a huge shape with glowing eyes that seems to yell "SHOOT HERE".
    I suggest sightly increasing both his health and resistance against Knockback. I don't want a major buff nor it to become the strongest skin; but just to be sightly better to the point where its not the worst skin in every possible scenario or map.

    - This last one is not a pF-Setting related issue, but I will mention it anyway. I talked with Kyle about the possibilty of making Igniting-Crouching-Zombies faster if possible; like increasing their Crouching-Speed (making them also less useless on Crouching-Vents) or making Ignite not affecting their speed while crouching or something... I don't know if its possible to do this things, or if even its worth trying; but its ridiculous how you can't even move when Igniting on a Crouch-Spot.
    Then again, if the ingite time of grenades were to be reduced, this would already strongly adress this issue.


    TL;DR VERSION:

    - Increase the HP of zombies, maybe even double it. (They are too easy to kill)
    - I think Zombie Regen is fine; but I would like to know the numbers.
    - Reduce Ignite Time from Naplam Grandes from 7 seconds to 3 seconds. (Is not Fun being Ignited, Zombies are Players aswel).
    - Buff the BloodSucker Zombie Class, his size completly nulifies his minor bonuses. (Just a minor buff so its not the worst zombie).

    Those changes should make the game more fair & fun for zombies (wich are players aswel, some people seem to forget) and maps with AFK-Killers and/or lacking Shorcuts/Teleports funier to play (how many times you played againt 5 zombies, and 3 minutes later they were only 3?)
    Also, don't think those buffs would make the server a lot harder or anything; most fails occur because stupid things (like edging, not pressing the button) or because enviromental things (bosses, traps); and killing the zombies often has no difference at all, apart from annoying the dead zombie when he can't catch up, or making the map ridicously easy when zombies can't respawn.
    • Like Like x 6
      Kaemon, Aug 28, 2012 Last edited by Kaemon, Aug 28, 2012
    • Apr 9, 2012
      Posts
      I especially am fond of the reduction of the ignition time idea as the time of ignition is plain ridicilous right now. And the health is also a good idea. Especially for maps to do not have any teleporting systems (due to lazyness imo) because when you die as a zombie, most don't even care to do the whole route again and then press the windows sign to check like their Facebook and whatever it could be...

      Very good post!
    • May 31, 2012
      Posts
      I totally agree with this, as we already discussed. I think shotguns should be buffed too (as I already posted a while ago, but it caused little-to-no reaction, I think).
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • May 11, 2011
        Posts
        I'm not sure about 3 seconds for the ignite that seems a little to low i think 5 would be better.
      • Jan 21, 2011
        Posts
        Very valid points kaemon. I like this idea.

        Also, apollo why is your signature so god damn big?
        • Agree Agree x 1
        • Jan 11, 2011
          Posts
          My guess is because IT IS THE GODDAMN BATMAN.
        • Aug 2, 2010
          Posts
          Yeah... the sig needs to be changed.

          Anyway, good points have been brought up. Nice work.
        • Jan 21, 2011
          Posts
          Well I'm flattered that he has a picture of me as his signature, but its too god damn big.
        • May 11, 2011
          Posts
          Fine i removed it.
        • Feb 14, 2012
          Posts
          I'm with you on the reduction of burn time with the grenade. But on well designed maps I feel your point about zombie health is overridden by zspawn. You die sure but what is the consequence a 5 to 10 second walk back before you're in the fray again? There really is no consequence for dying as a zombie as you can just jump right back in unlike other servers that make you spec for the rest of the round. I also agree that something needs to be done about the bloodsucker, he's an awesome model but like you pointed out essentially worthless. I used to play on a server that had a doom 3 pinky zombie class on it. He had no knock back but was so slow he would lag behind and essentially tank in at the end of the human holds if he wasn't shot to death first. Maybe we could offset no knockback with low speed and high health to keep him from running over everything but still give him that "TANK!" feel?
          • Agree Agree x 1
          • Jan 11, 2012
            Posts
            Can't you just spoiler it?

            And yeah totally agree. Legoland for example is one big slaughterfest. Industrial dejavu is fine with it's healcage
          • Dec 6, 2011
            Posts
            I definitely agree with boosting the zombie HP. It's almost impossible to last in just one room of a map, especially as a half zombie. Plus, you have all of these auto-sniping point whores that end up killing you within five seconds. Although, for the igniting time, I believe that it is perfect where it is. Lowering it will cause some maps to be almost unbeatable, such at Predator, etc.

            And another point that has been brought up before, but I feel has been overlooked, is the pump shotgun knock-back. Currently a useless gun, knock-back wise AND damage wise, it would bring some help on some maps if it was fixed.

            In conclusion:
            -Double HP for zombies
            -Same igniting time
            -Increase shotgun knock-back
            • Agree Agree x 3
            • May 31, 2012
              Posts
              The igniting time is way too much now, in my opinion. I'd still lower it to 4.5 or 5 minimum. As Kaemon says, zombies are players too, and burning for decades is not cool. Also, 'big' maps can be won without a single nade being thrown, and 4-5 secs is still high by comparison.

              EDIT: I completely agree with the other points.
            • Dec 6, 2011
              Posts
              But the igniting time is a highly required tool to beat quite a few maps. Without the 7 seconds, we're basically fucked on certain maps.
            • Feb 14, 2012
              Posts
              I believe there is a problem with the auto sniper as well but I think that is more due to the knockback of that weapon holding you in place while your health burns away. The shotgun definitely needs to be buffed as well to play a bigger roll in defence. Look at the shotgun in other zombie games as an example, the M3 needs the mother fucking boom stick feel to it.
              • Agree Agree x 1
              • Dec 6, 2011
                Posts
                Maybe we just need to look in the direction of modifying the auto-snipers to not being so goddamn overpowered.
                • Agree Agree x 1
                • May 31, 2012
                  Posts
                  Not really. When I didn't play on pF I used to play on a spanish server with settings that were very very similar (in fact, the only notable difference was the lack of donor, bloodsucker skin and the 4 second long ignite time), and we managed to beat a few maps. The server was 40-50 slots (it changed after some time) and was almost always full (and they kicked specs every 4 mins, so I think most of the times it was almost complete) and we managed to beat most maps, at some times.

                  I completely agree with this. Autosnipers can cause a lot of edging just to pointwhore. If shotguns were boosted, people would hold behind the cades and waiting for zombies to get near, since it's at those low ranges where the shotgun can do its job.
                • Feb 14, 2012
                  Posts
                  The damage they do is comparable to other weapons but the problem I find is 4 or 5 of them essentially make an impassible wall of knockback and you just get raped. Maybe giving a certain zombie class no to little knockback will turn the tides on this without having to modify the weapon. Having an auto sniper shouldn't give you a breath easy card for the whole map.
                • Dec 6, 2011
                  Posts
                  Yes, I'm through the idea of fixing the auto-sniper out there because of the 350+ damage per bullet to the face, which holds a zombie in the corner. A zombie with little knock-back will just make holding spots and defending while back peddling a whole lot harder. I'm thinking a fix for the auto-sniper is the way to go, considering the fact that every person on the top 10 uses an auto-sniper and shoots the almost-dead zombies in the back of the zombie crowd rather than the ones in the front to help out his team.
                  • Agree Agree x 1
                  • Jan 30, 2011
                    Posts
                    I agree on all the points said.

                    Although I don't use the bloodsucker zombie skin (admin/donor half zombie) I still find that almost all of the gunfire is targeted towards them when they are with a bunch of half zombies. Seeing as it's the tallest skin, ofcourse everything is going to be concentrated on them. Which the higher HP and lower Knockback buff would compensate for. For the Napalm's, I think 7 seconds is a little too long, but like what Evio said, even 5 seconds should be enough to keep the igniting time on for, to allow for still more of a challenge without a big disadvantage to the zombie players.
                    The shotgun - I used to use this gun way back when I joined the pF community, believing it to be a good weapon to defend with due to the high power during close combat. However, I was a tad dissappointed when I found it didn't shoot the zombies back as far as I'd thought they would, instead, it shot them back only a few feet, giving me little time to reload in between.

                    TL;DR
                    - Basically I agree with all points:
                    - Higher HP, lower knockback for bloodsucker
                    - less time for ignition time of grenades
                    - shotgun modified for more usefulness.