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ze_cathedral for css

Discussion in Mapping Discussion started by JorisCeoen, Feb 1, 2013

  1. Apr 9, 2012
    After seeing Luffaren his post for porting toaster to css, I had the idea to do the same for Cathedral. I made an attempt far earlier on this but I didn't do it since entities barely port over.

    Anyways I think it's time for me to do other things so I decided to start porting it anyways now. I will only port the visuals, not a single entity (except environment_light) will be ported as it otherwise crashes on opening the .vmf

    Let me start by saying the map is not fantastic gamplay wise, and it's worst problems were of course FPS. This mainly due to the expensive models I created myself. I've come up by the idea of making very cheap LODS which should significantly increase FPS. Gameplay-wise I will try to add more things than it's GO counterpart to make it more interesting.

    I will have to redo all entities, all triggers, all lights and as I said optimize a lot. Visual optimizing was done already with hint and skip but for so far there's something to do on that aspect, I have done all I can to keep FPS at a playable rate (and it should be much better with the LODS anyways.)

    I will not say too much from here on, there's not really much to tell anyways. I will try to release ASAP.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Mapping King Mapping King x 1
    • Good Idea Good Idea x 1
    • Apr 9, 2007
      It's probably your models...
    • Apr 9, 2012
      What do you mean? If you mean that it doesn't port due to models, this is wrong, since they port along with the .vmf

      When I put an entity in it, even if it was only a decal, it crashes :sweat:
    • May 31, 2012
      I believe that to port toaster Luffaren just had to change/remove the func_buttons.
    • Apr 9, 2012
      I might give it another try by removing the brush entities, but last time I did that it crashed x)
    • May 14, 2011
      All you have to do is remove the extra keyvalues csgo used in its enties. I believe someone could write a script for this if they had enough time and knew how but alas, no one has yet done so.
    • Apr 9, 2012
      I tried both but neither succeeded. Tried to port without props as well but didn't work either.

      This might as well be a good chance for me to redo everything and do it the right way this time because the CS:GO version had teleport problems as well, though not gamebreaking such as SSBB.

      I spend the whole day creating LODS for my models. Those who don't know what it means: it's a submodel inside a main model, often looking exactly the same but with generally unnoticable changes, such as expensive cilinders and geomtry being completely simplified for the only purpose of increasing FPS. I compiled without LODS and it brought me to 50FPS. With them it's freaking 160... I had knew this back in the time of GO I would have done it from start.

      It's however a stupid process and I hate creating LODS because it makes models often look more uglier than it actually is necessary. However in this map it's simply the best way to increase FPS.

      Ok so now I will start redoing it all, see you when it's done
    • Nov 11, 2011
      I create maps that are realistic but since we're using an outdated and inefficient engine, we can't create Crysis looking models. It's a give and take type of thing unfortunately. :thinking:
    • Oct 17, 2011
    • Apr 9, 2012
      It's been a while as I said on SSBB as well, and I also restarted my cathedral for CSS.

      You may think that I mistyped my words but I didn't, I'm really restarting cathedral, meaning from the ground up to someting better than it was before. Earlier I was just trying to port and heavily improve FPS, which btw was really going well, but since the recent improvements I've learned on myself I really was feeling like I wasted time on my current cathedral version.

      I had 6 different models for the cathedral structure of which most had arguably 4000-6000 polygons. Let's take that I used around 100 models in total for the structure models only without LODS, because not everyone is actually affected by LOD (those with custom FOV and very high resolution do never see any LODS), then that would be at the least worst 100x6000 polygons = 600000 polygons at the same time!
      I know I reduced that to something much lower woth the LODS, but since mapping for CS:GO, seeing LODS popping up everywhere and with the fact that modern hardware indeed is somewhat stronger, I guess LODS are not necessary as long as you can make your map in the way it actually doesn't need it. As such, this is the reason I am completely rebuilding each and every model for the cathedral, as well as using better lenghts this time, having all models snap on the grid perfectly, making working in side hammer and 3DS Max much more convenient.

      For the gameplay are also some changes but I will actually only reveal those on release.

      Another stupid reason why I'm redoing the cathedral is because currently I cannot work onto SSBB. I have to everything in HL2 2009 but even then no filters work etc, making SSBB extremely hard to work with. So I win much more time constructing a much better cathedral for the time Valve will fix Hammer (hopefully for christ sake) where I do not need to test yet anything with triggers, only the level.

      For a quick picture of everything done today, on final compile settings the current cathedral looks like this, with non-final lighting, as I found the previous cathedral to be too dark and this is way too dark atm:


      I've taken @enviolinador his very old advice on my first version in mind, which was changing the textures. I will not use bumpmaps anymore for some really visual changing reasons on final compile settings, and also brighter and warmer colours, because the first textures where just unharmonised, ugly, and way too dark.

      I'm not really sure about the white stone for the pillars, but currently I found this to fit the best with the other ones. The yellow brick texture is really one I would like to keep.

      I'll see you next time on the update posts, which I will try to keep rather minimalized on only telling at which current progress any of my projects will be.

      There is no ETA for the new cathedral.
      • Mapping King Mapping King x 2