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ze_Cathedral_Ressurected in progress (New/CS:S version)

Discussion in Completed Maps started by JorisCeoen, Aug 21, 2012

  1. Apr 9, 2012
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    LATEST PICS

    So as some of you may know, I've been busy working on the newest cathedral version. I will already start to say that the name 'ressurected' is taken from the earlier name of ze_Paranoid and I really thought it sounded cool, and since it doesn't use it anymore I thought to lend it for the next release :smile:

    Here is the main page but I will post pics from here on in the thread as well: http://gamebanana.com/projects/34608

    So far only the main corridor is done. Note that I am starting the project completely from scratch. Literally completely, because even the models and textures are being done from 0. My previous models were horrible, and I think that after a lot of calculations, the cathedral rendered over a million polygons at the same time... which is waaaaay too much. This version will have more than 60% less polygons without LODS. With LODS it will be even less, though I think I could even manage it to render the entire cathedral at a solid framerate without LODS. I could but I won't do it. I mean I will use LODS in any case while still trying to use the least possible amount of polygons before using any LODS.

    That is also the main idea and inspiration I will start with any new project from now on, both in modelling as in mapping. Also texturing is considerably lower. The previous cathedral had 3 different albedos/materials on each model with each being 512x512 resolution. Now that I learned UV-Mapping it has become one texture for all models being 1024x1024, so that means both less work for the CPU to calculate as well as less RAM while gaining graphical improvement and performance.

    About the gameplay, I will try to make it more interesting than it previously was. Keep in mind that the current version (the bad one) was only made in 5 days so I had to do what I could to finish everything in a rush I had never done before. I want to add a few characters, and different levels, though the levels will be random and no particular order. I've been really becoming tired of levels that rely on progression... I tend to love random levels that each have their own difficulty. Also I won't include a bossfight unless after release there is really a demand for one, but the initial will not have one in any case.

    And here are some screenshots with a little explanation:

    [IMG]
    Very early stage

    [IMG]
    Taken after finishing the main corrider, the lighting on final settings is lovely, the previous cathedral didn't even have final compile settings as I didn't knew it before. The next one is the same in wireframe mode:

    [IMG]
    [IMG]
    Cathedral with ceiling visuals and some lighting from the window on the other side. I will add func_dustmotes on the main level floor for nice effects. The next picture is the same but in wireframe mode again:

    [IMG]

    Wireframe mode brought the previous version under 20fps while this barely drops (from 175 to 172 without dropping in speed despite wireframe mode being rather heavy when a lot of edges have to be drawn (which was in overloaded amounts in the other version).

    I will update from time to time here! I hope people like the new textures, as @enviolinador suggested me back then after the first release. They are far more acceptable now and not so derpressing and heavy. I wanted to use lighter colors and better lighthing, which I hope it does now :smile:

    Let me know what you think of it!

    NEW PICS 01
    • Like Like x 3
    • Wizard! Wizard! x 1
      JorisCeoen, Aug 21, 2012 Last edited by JorisCeoen, Oct 5, 2013
    • May 31, 2012
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      My computer imploded... I want moneiz!!!

      Testing now, will edit this post soon.

      EDIT1: Lul @ names both in thread and .rar -> ze_catheral and ze_cathderal

      EDIT2: Ok, feedback. First of all, being completely sincere, I don't quite like the map now. I kinda expected more from it. Also, there's something in the textures that makes me rage slightly; dunno what. There are missing textures too (at least for me) in the windows; they are aaaaaaall purple and ruin the mood. I wouldn't say the map is hard to follow/play but some arrows wouldn't hurt (I got lost myself one or two times, but I'd get lost going to my own house's bathroom). The music should sould LOUDER imo, at should be like if all the cathedral was shaking (and a lil' env_shake wouldn't do any damage in that case). The escape route seems too 'tight' (I only tested the upper route, which I suppose is the only that works by now), and some holds are, to me, ridiculous (30 seconds at a crate in a thin, 64-80 units hallway will either be an edger paradise or the final buttraping for poor, poor zombies). Apart from that, I'd say the rest is A-Ok; and considering this is a beta I think the final version will be kewl.

      EDIT3: Also, no .kv file?
      enviolinador, Aug 21, 2012 Last edited by enviolinador, Aug 21, 2012
    • Feb 12, 2012
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      [IMG]
      Also when it said to go back to spawn through the left door the door didn't open or i did something wrong ? :S
    • May 31, 2012
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      Go to the other door in front of the one you went to; the same happened to me.
    • May 28, 2012
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      Pink textures mean missing textures meaning, they are custom and not packed into the map. Simple fix by joris.
    • Jul 1, 2010
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      The left door at spawn opens up when someone touches it. I don't really mind the escape route although the smaller holding area (second hold point upstairs, 30s) in the beginning of the upper level might be a problem.. I'd like to see it played in action though. I think there is enough crouch jumping that the playing field is probably going to get thinned out some before that point, although I could be wrong. Directions were pretty clear and I didn't really get lost... I only got tricked, because like usual I auto chose my side and I was a terrorist so nothing worked for me :razz: Took me a few minutes to realise what was going on heh.

      I like it, but I'd have to see it played on a full server. And the last time we tested it I thought it looked good, and it definitely looks great now. Also, the window textures also need to be fixed.

      Also, solo testing I'm getting around 100-150 fps, so thats not bad.

      -EDIT-

      For some reason I'm not hearing music at all.

      Nvm, heard it once I hit the organ.
      Dharkk, Aug 21, 2012 Last edited by Dharkk, Aug 21, 2012
    • Apr 9, 2012
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      I made the map in 5 days. I did this solely because they wanted maps for before the release.

      The map itself is playable now, however I didn't implement the catacombs yet, neither of the twin towers and not the central tower either. It's simply impossible to enlarge the upper level as it has been incorporated with the geometry... And yes, it's not that it's the only route working right now, it's the only one implemented at this time.

      If you don't like the textures, then I can't say anything against it. There are many maps over there of which I really sincerely think why the hack they used those textures while others say it doesn't hurt them. If it becomes a general problem (like everyone hating the textures) I can change them. What's probably completely different from these textures, (because it has never been used in any other ze map) is that they use parallax displacement maps. It's much nicer in my opinion and gives the textures a good touch. However how hard I try to find myself not liking the textures, I can't find a reason for it why you don't like them.

      I have tried making the music louder before, but it's impossible without having noise and screeches in the background. I prefer a little lower music with quality over overly hard baffles without any meaningful point in doing so (as it would be terribly annoying rather than anything else)

      What is .kv file?

      With the left door I basically mean the door that you will encounter on your left when coming from the center of the cathedral.

      The only thing I can perfectly find myself in right now is when you say that some holding spots are too tight. But as I said previously, enlarging certain areas is impossible. Instead I'll put the holding points (in the next version though) on other larger places. I won't change the following (currently!):

      - Organ holding spot
      - Light holding spot
      - Ending (finale)

      I will change:

      - Upper level holding spots
      - Holding spot before the upper level acces.

      However I will only make changes whenever I have the chance to test it out with more players.

      Anyways thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.
    • Apr 9, 2012
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      Missing textures will be fixed.

      EDIT: .kv file is fixed
    • Apr 9, 2012
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      New download arriving soon for testing purposes. I added a guide (yellow/orange light) for the route and I replaced one of the worst holds a bit further so it becomes fair.
      I didn't changed the organ hold but that will also change for sure!

      I still didn't implement the mental ray lighting but that will be for another version!
    • Apr 9, 2012
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      I gtg and didn't even had time to test my own map. @Dharkk will test it with some people and they will see how it goes!
      Thanks for all the feedback, information and suggestions!

      Idk when the next version will kick in The only thing I know is that it'll be at least after I am able to test the map (while being completely playable and bugfree) myself with a decent nr of people.
    • Nov 11, 2011
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      You love having a conversation with yourself, don't ya? lol. In any case, I might test it out later if I get time. Quite busy at the moment. Placed my maps on hold as well.
      • Funny Funny x 1
      • Jul 1, 2010
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        At this point it says that the zombies will be able to come through the middle and sides, but they couldn't get in through the middle (couldn't all the way down to the maria spot if they left after originally getting in there). There is also a typo in 30 second grail warning, says kill us al instead of kill us all:

        [IMG]

        [IMG]

        I was also slightly confused as to what to do after teleported up to the top to defend, but I only ran through it once due to having to run afk. I definitely like the changes to the hold points that you did. The cathedral did shake and there was music, so that all worked. Also in the beggining (maria) the zombie did get teleported, but sometimes it doesn't teleport them to the altar like it should. The hold point at the altar before going up to defend the top also seems to be a bit long.

        The other thing I forgot to mention is when we are told to go back to the spawn and go to the door to the right, that door is actually to the left based on the direction we are going (towards spawn). It would be on the right when looking out from spawn though. I also didn't notice a message for when the zombies/humans are teleported at the organ, just the 10 second one I think. Also, how does the organ hold point work? Are zombies teleported when we are supposed to go? or do you just push them back while moving/firing? If they were supposed to get teleported away from the path out and down to the altar it didn't occur during testing.

        Also, this might be a bit nit picky, but the Holy Light's two back orbs are on the other side of the double doors that it is up against.

        -EDIT-

        When I'm running down the hallway to the orb that has you go down to the organ, sometimes I get stuck by an invisible wall and can't progress, although the orb does move away from that door as if someone is hitting it.
        • Zing! Zing! x 1
          Dharkk, Aug 21, 2012 Last edited by Dharkk, Aug 21, 2012
        • Aug 19, 2012
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          [IMG]
          Boxes have un-textured faces on some sides. :wink:

          Might be a pain to fix, IDK.
        • Jul 1, 2010
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          Overall I love the map.. just those quick (I think they will be quick) fixes and itll be golden to be shoved on to the server.
        • Apr 9, 2012
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          They are super easy to fix as they are models of mine :wink:
          And even if it werent mine I could quickly fix it ^^ (Though I would probably just have used another crate model)
        • Dec 6, 2011
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          @JorisCeoen , I know you wanted to have a map for release, but I think this map has some great potential, so keep working on it. I already like it how great it looks, just spend more time on it and it'll be perfect. +1 for the quick map also.
        • Apr 9, 2012
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          Thanks for the kind encouragement!
          It has been tested by some people and mainly by Dharkk, and it appears to go fine for the most part. This evening I will test it myself (never had the chance yet lol) and see what exactly is still going wrong (such as the last hold where I apparantly forgot a trigger_push disable by zombies cannot attack at all lol...) And some other little things.
        • Apr 9, 2012
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          • Like Like x 1
          • Apr 9, 2012
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            I updated the OP and with a lot more information this time around. I will use this old thread for the newest version updates. Let me know what you think of it!

            READ OP
          • Apr 9, 2012
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            New pictures. Today I have worked on a single model from this morning till now past 01:00 AM

            This is the model I'm talking about (HLMV is broken atm even the hlmv.exe in the bin folder of cstrike in custom):
            [IMG]

            I came across something to think of in the sidewings of the crossform of the cathedral, and earlier in the old version I completely went wrong in terms of architecture and construction ratios. I had built the secondary floor above the upper and lower windows which is wrong, as it indicates the second floor was outside of the cathedral walls, like sticking out. So I had to prevent that from happening. I took one row from the main corridor, and built the secondary floor onto that row which you can also find in real cathedrals as well. So that was fixed, but I didn't like the plain 45° corner on the older version, so I tried something more ambitious, which is what you can see on the upper picture.

            I decided to split the 45° into a double arch, where the 45° is only noticeable at the middle arch of the ceiling. The most difficult part was to make it align with the grid in hammer and make it fit perfectly, but it was no problem after checking everything carefully. This is the final result. I'm not sure if I should fit every face of the walls of that end (there are 5 sides with already one being filled, which is the 90° wall as seen in the picture) because usually a cathdral doesn't contain 5 windows on a sidewing (usually on the frontwing/top/front of the cathedral). I'll look into it but it's probably gonne be 3 at max.

            Some other screens showing the wireframemode again, this time also the collision mesh skeleton and the skeleton of the current whole cathedral from 2 angles:

            [IMG]
            [IMG]
            [IMG]
            [IMG]
            [IMG]

            That's it for today. Tomorrow I hope to finish the upper part of that sidewing (and then just copy-paste everything from the leftwing to the rightwing is a matter of minutes) and to start off a bit on the frontwing, which will pose to be the most challenging part of the architecture in my opinion. Perhaps going for a 5-window structure, something which I loved in certain churches, or a 3 wing. I will try to keep 2 open rows for more movement in the arch of the frontwing.

            Those interested in the current FPS:

            Without LODS, no optimization at all (except for already very cheap models and only one texture for the models) with HDR and using the cordon method which is terrible: 156 in general with 132 being the lowest. The final result should with LODS be able to handle a solid 170-180FPS.

            See you tomorrow or another time (not gonna update everyday though).
            • Mapping King Mapping King x 2