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Zm_4way_tunnel Door, Button Spamming

Discussion in CS:S Zombie Mod started by Joshy, Mar 28, 2015

  1. May 31, 2012
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    [IMG]



    Some players were complaining about someone (Agent Orange) "glitching" a door, but the functionality of the door appears to be working exactly as intended; however, is it being used as intended? In previous discussions (zm_base_winter_beta3c Spam Button CT [admin only]) spamming buttons was okay so long as there are alternate ways to the spot. In this circumstance, this isn't necessarily a spot and CT's can taunt fellow team members from using the easy route. This spamming is a bit annoying, and if a player gets caught in the door, they can get killed. To my knowledge, this isn't against the rules, but the players were heavily complaining (you can see in the demo).

    I don't think the player should be punished because there does not appear to be rules against it at this time (open to interpretation), which is why I have the demo posted and in a public thread; I also wanted regular players to contribute to the discussion, and to have the results of the discussion in a public thread for later referrals.

    Should this be considered griefing (if against your own team members) despite the alternate ways around (using the vents)?
  2. Jun 29, 2014
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    lol pretty sure that falls under griefing your teammates tard 1
  3. Mar 26, 2012
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    I don't believe it is griefing. The players outside of that area don't have any control to open or close their door. They can shoot the opposite side to open or close the door that's opposite to them, but it doesn't appear these players were attempting that. It's similar to the door in Desprerados where it cannot be open from the outside. Players will open or close it to taunt other players, usually zombies. It's a douche thing to do, but it isn't griefing.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Oct 29, 2010
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      I don't have a problem with people closing the doors as they pass. I would have a problem if people outside were opening the doors and he was shooting them closed again, this seems plainly blocking. I also have a problem with him opening and closing the doors trying to team kill, looked like he actually did once in the demo.

      I'm pretty sure the vents require a boost if you're lacking donor jump, if not, I would probably change my feelings on this spot.

      Edit: Holy crap I just read through that winter base thread, I don't think the button spamming rule was explained very clearly at all, and yeah our wording of the actual rule kinda sucks.
      • Like Like x 2
      • Agree Agree x 2
        Momo, Mar 29, 2015 Last edited by Momo, Mar 29, 2015
      • Feb 1, 2011
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        Personally I think what the guy in the video is doing is griefing. Like Momo said, regular players cannot get into the vents without a boost. And this dude is just sitting there keeping players from getting through. Closing it as you go through is OK but sitting there spamming it seems like griefing to me. This is the main avenue that about half the team goes through every round.
        • Agree Agree x 2
        • Feb 21, 2007
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          I agree with others. People always close the door as they pass thru, and the vent requires someone to boost you. Its a bit annoying but isn't against the rules.

          However, in this situation, he was spamming the buttons so much that he was controlling the door completely. Even if a player shot the opposite button, the door would have started to open (and because the was shooting it so rapidly) he would have shot it to immediately closed again. I would consider is griefing or blocking, I suppose.
          • Agree Agree x 4
          • Mar 10, 2014
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            Based off of the video, it looked like he was intentionally trying to kill his teammates. To me this is definitely griefing, for it serves no real purpose other than to piss off that player. Also while the other players can open the door opposite to them, how many of the random, and sometimes common players know that this is even possible. To be honest i didn't know that one was capable of doing this, but i digress.
            • Agree Agree x 1
            • Dec 17, 2007
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              If he was waiting for other humans to pass through and then close the doors then I would consider it team killing, however in the video it looks more like he was just spamming the buttons and wasn't trying to team kill. The other players can go through the vents if they wanted to, by either boosting each other up or using admin/donator jump.
            • Dec 27, 2012
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              Personally I'd love to have those buttons removed. 99% of the time, people use them to piss off/grief other players. That's it for my input.
            • May 31, 2012
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              @Agent Orange, would you like to defend yourself on this? It didn't look like you were trying to kill players (although a few did get killed), but how would you feel if admins enforced blocking/griefing rules for this situation; conversely, how do you feel that this is an okay thing to do or why do you do it?

              I want to ask @Bro's.M and @Orange for their ideas too since they are extremely active in ZM and on this map, and they might see this often or not.

              So far, it looks like the general consensus is leaning towards making this activity against the rules for reason of griefing or blocking.
            • Jan 25, 2014
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              The fact that he was baiting them or taunting them to is merely distasteful if the humans were smart they woulda just boost and tried to let the others in.

              I feel this is similar to the desperadoes secret if they dont know it they go to jail and die you open the door and dont do the secret they run in and die
            • Jun 29, 2014
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              • Funny Funny x 3
              • Feb 1, 2011
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                I feel it goes beyond distasteful. The dude isn't even actively playing the ZM gamemode (hold off / kill zombies & try to survive) -- he's staying in a non-spot for the sole purpose of slowing down or stopping humans from progressing further into the map. Yes, they can boost into the vent with teamwork, but if no one has donor jump, at least one person will get left behind. Also that vent becomes a royal clusterfuck when more than a few people are trying to pass through. Additionally, why should players be forced to use a slower, less convenient route because one dude wants to camp the door buttons? There is no tactical advantage to spamming that door well before the zombies spawn.

                Obviously closing the door is fine - if you're too late, too bad. But we've enforced door button spamming for years, mostly for humans that spam door buttons to prevent zombies from ever getting in. Why shouldn't it be the same for human vs human? The vent being there doesn't change the fact that this is intentional teammate griefing IMO.
                • Like Like x 1
                • Agree Agree x 1
                • Mar 26, 2012
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                  But if he shoots it once and stays right there, would we enforce it as griefing? It's just because that he keeps shooting it over and over, taunting his teammates, that we are upset by this. If he had shot it just once and not opened it up for his teammates, then they would still have to use an alternative route or hope the otherside would shoot it open for them.
                • Oct 29, 2010
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                  I mean, it would obviously be rude if he were to just sit there, but no, I would not enforce that. Honestly, aside from the fact that he ended up killing people, I probably wouldn't even enforce what he did in the demo, as it didn't look like they were trying to open the opposite side's door.

                  I do worry about players like this though, it looks like his sole purpose in this demo is to piss off his teammates. As dill said, there's absolutely no tactical advantage to do what he's doing.
                  • Like Like x 1
                  • Feb 8, 2013
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                    Sorry, I'm not very active on ZM. I don't want to be. I usually play to relax and hope I can go in the server with a map I like to play, but that never happens. But either way, I've only ran into this problem once or twice, and once, it was done by an admin. I find it more frustrating that players are playing with the elevators. Maybe admins should pay more attention to that.
                    Post Merged, Mar 29, 2015
                    If he constantly (no matter for one round or more) sits there and close doors on humans and leaves while zombie infection starts, then I probably would consider that causing grief.
                    Post Merged, Mar 29, 2015
                    This is what I don't like to see players do. The No Delay rule should apply in ZM too, just to make pace of the rounds go faster if necessary. One person shouldn't be in the hiding while 30 zombies are trying to start a new round.
                    Post Merged, Mar 29, 2015
                    Absolutely. He just wants to troll.
                    Post Merged, Mar 29, 2015
                    Part of the reason why I nominate this map is because I'm usually the first one to get through the door and I like to be a dick and shoot it close, but if I miss my one shot at closing the door, I just ditch that and move on. I wouldn't ever stand there and shut the door on people who are trying to get through. At the very least, I'd stay on the elevator and wait for whoever is remaining and wishes to go up, so this makes me the nicest person on earth.
                  • May 31, 2012
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                    I am not sure if I am understanding correctly: General consensus is that this a douche-y thing to do, but it is not breaking rules (so do not enforce or escalate unless they purposely kill team mates)? Did I understand that correctly?
                  • Oct 29, 2010
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                    I would say as long as they don't continuously close the door (assuming teammates are trying to open it) or team kill, there shouldn't be an issue.
                    • Agree Agree x 1
                    • Artistic Artistic x 1
                    • May 31, 2012
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                      So, if it's like the demo (continuous), enforce?
                    • Mar 26, 2012
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                      No, because the players weren't attempting to open the doors (by shooting the other side).
                      • Agree Agree x 1