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zm_deep_thought_nv vs. zm_deep_thought_redux_r2c

Discussion in Mapping Discussion started by GiGaBiTe, May 13, 2013

Which map do you want on the server?

zm_deep_thought_nv 17 vote(s) 68.0%
zm_deep_thought_redux_r2c 8 vote(s) 32.0%
  1. Mar 26, 2009
    Posts
    So Retslag wants me to start a poll to see which version of zm_deep_thought we should have on the server (since both are not allowed to be on at the same time.)

    I made zm_deep_thought_redux as a remake of zm_deep_thought_nv because nv was a terrible map with few places to go. You had people basically had people going in droves to just 3-4 spots (jail, server room, execution room or the cheap room near the execution room.) The map is also poorly constructed and has awful lighting. Not to mention it's pretty small for such a large server PF runs.

    I rebuilt the map from scratch as redux and people seemed to like the map, it was played fairly regularly and I didn't hear too many complaints about it. I'd like it to be put back on the server because it was a map basically made for PF.

    zm_deep_thought_nv:
    [IMG]

    zm_deep_throught_redux_r2c:
    [IMG]
  2. Feb 1, 2011
    Posts
    I prefer the original. Yours is a lot different and added some spots that I felt were overpowered (such as the teleporter room where the teleport can be completely blocked by the cades you added - which means zombies are stuck as soon as they teleport in - el cheapo).

    Also, I totally disagree with the negative things you said about the original. I never had an issue with the lighting. I give no credit to your claim of it being "poorly constructed". And while it is small, it serves its purpose quite well for medium-to-low pop times on ZM.
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Aug 2, 2010
      Posts
      I love the OG map for the times the server population is low and a large map is unwanted.
    • Mar 26, 2009
      Posts
      You've played the map enough times to know that the teleporter isn't the only way to stab humans. There's a long window where zombies can easily stab humans through, or wait for an opportune time hidden below the wall (half zombies.) Zombies can also stab through the partially open fence door from the adjacent room.



      The lighting is completely nonsensical. You have purple lighting that contrasts with sickly yellow lighting and over bright red lights, its super distracting. Brushwork all over the map is also very bad from a mapping and practical sense. The back stairs aren't built properly, the ladder between floors is easy to get stuck on due to improper construction and the brush doors all over the map look really bad.
    • Feb 1, 2011
      Posts
      Let me clarify - the teleporter is the only way to stab humans that aren't absolutely retarded. If you stay away from the side wall and back gate (which were both vulnerable in the original as well), you can get every single zombie stuck and not have to worry about them getting to you at all. There are plenty of spots with windows/bars that can be stabbed through - most people have their wits about them enough to stay far away enough to not get stabbed.
    • Aug 2, 2010
      Posts
      No chance you can just pretty up the original?
    • Mar 26, 2009
      Posts

      I've seen even the best players get stabbed in that room. Everyone eventually makes a mistake, especially when the area gets really busy with zombies. You also have to deal with backstabbers when the room is full of people. But if that's your only problem with the map, I can modify that room to allow easier access for zombies.

      But you act like there aren't any cheap spots in nv. nv has the cheapest spot of both maps, that tiny room next to the execution chamber. Once you pile the metal shelving units up against the door, it's basically impossible to get in the room. I rarely see that room go down when you get 3-4 people in it. The execution room is cheap in both maps, but I tried to make the room larger in redux so its harder to wedge props between the door and the table.
      Post Merged, May 13, 2013
      No, because I don't decompile-edit-recompile maps. It's a shitty way of trying to modify a map and breaks the map even further from decompiling not making a perfect replica of the original map source.

      I don't see a reason to remake the map again because it would take weeks/months, and It would still be vastly different because I build things in my style, not the style of the original author.
    • Aug 2, 2010
      Posts
      Then can you make an uber cool map that's not large? We're in need of smaller maps for the slow times.
    • Mar 26, 2009
      Posts
      Why should I take time out of my life to make another map for the server when I have to continually campaign to keep my existing maps on the server? Where's the guarantee that the new map I potentially make won't also be removed from the server for some arbitrary reason?
    • Apr 9, 2007
      Posts
      Unfortunately there isn't one. I like the newer one personally as the rooms aren't as bogus. But it's up to everyone what maps go up, if there's a heavy demand for a different (external) revision, we'll roll with that. I rollback code all the time, and scrap ideas when people say they suck. Sometimes people like the old, horribly constructed products better. We may know the new one is superior, but it's hard to manage that way.
    • Sep 6, 2010
      Posts
      As everybody's tastes differ when it comes to a particular map I wanted add my two cents. You've made a good map, its smooth and looks nice. However, the original map rocks when it comes to game play. It is small which makes it fun to play - I don't have to spend the whole round searching for people as a zombie when the map is big. Also, spots are good. There's quite a good chance of zombie spawning in those spots so they would get all turned in there. Likewise with enough zombie power you can get in to any spot if everybody smart enough to push E on the props. I also like how you can infect people in the jail cell when an occasional noob comes too close. In comparison, some large maps especially with secrets make it too boring to play because you spend so much time looking around for people and those in secret spots you don't know how to get. I think that map gets even more fun when the server is close to full capacity. The key is when one spot survived the round then you should expect a lot of players coming in that spot next round and somebody will backstab so you should go to another spot.
    • Mar 26, 2009
      Posts
      Unlike code, you can have multiple versions of maps on a server without ill effect. People vote for the next map they want to play and aren't forced to play one they don't want to play. Even if they end up on a map they don't want, they can rtv it off. But for whatever reason it's not allowed.

      I had a small map under construction at one point:
      [IMG]

      But I'm not going to waste my time finishing it if it'll never be played and I have to do the same thing with it as deep_thought_redux.
    • Feb 1, 2011
      Posts
      This is a bit of an unfounded fear IMO. The only reason you're having to campaign to keep your maps on the server is because they are remakes that are similar to the original maps, and it only makes sense to have one of them on the server if they're so similar. Unfortunately, people have preferred some of the originals over some of your remakes (not all of them by the way, we still have survival_f2a and your remake of base_winter AFAIK). However, if you were to make an original map, I see no reason why they would not be added or get removed at a later date unless they were crappy to begin with and people didn't like them (which could always be fixed with revisions, etc.). It's not like there would be some other pre-existing version to compete with like there are with your remakes.

      Big difference between an original map and a remake - I don't think you would face issues like this with original maps.
      dillinger, May 13, 2013 Last edited by dillinger, May 13, 2013
    • Mar 26, 2009
      Posts

      There are two versions of zm_towers on the server (and have been for at least two years). There are four versions of lila_panic on the server (and have been for years.) There are also some other duplicates with alternate names (and have been for years.)

      And you're telling me I can't have my version of map coexist with another map, why again?

      More likely the reason is because people hate me being here and want to give me grief on any possible vector.

      You sure did a quick 180 here. You'd make a great politician, two faced and piss people off.
      • Like Like x 1
      • Feb 1, 2011
        Posts
        That's the spirit! Tell me how ya really feel, Gigabite! Sorry I couldn't be more receptive to the little pity party you decided to throw yourself on our forums.

        Don't give yourself too much credit there, buddy. Most of us had figured you went off to do your own thing, and I seriously doubt anyone involved with adjusting the map rotation (I don't have anything to do with that) has any malicious intent towards you, or a desire to "grief" you.

        We've had a lot of mappers here, many of whom have had some or all of their maps removed. Out of all of them, you've proven yourself to be the most spiteful and immature.
        • Agree Agree x 2
        • Oct 17, 2011
          Posts
          the old version highest score is
          119-2
          your version:
          25-5
          i would go with the older version cause it's more fun and requires teamwork.

          and btw why on earth would you make a thread like this? Both maps were fine on rotation and both were being played.
        • Feb 27, 2012
          Posts
          Gigabite, you're relying on redux's to make yourself look good, and are afraid that them being removed means you did a terrible job. It doesn't. They look great, the just aren't as good as originals. Sure the old map looks like garbage and probably was built ass terrible, but look at 4way for example. Shitty texturing, bad brush work, and many glitches in it. But people love it. If you want people to enjoy what you've got, make something original, or just make the EXACT same map over again with nothing new or changed. Keep all the props how they are, whether they all be glitchable or not. Just keep it as close to the same as possible. I enjoy your redux's, they're nice, just not the same as originals.
        • Aug 2, 2010
          Posts
          The only thing I'm getting from this thread is wahhhhhhhhhhh.

          So your map wasn't liked. Get over it. Shit like this is a normal occurrence in life. Attitudes, such as the one you've been exhibiting, belong to that whiny little bitch that's always complaining about never getting a raise or promotion. "The only reason why I'm not getting promoted is because my supervisor doesn't like me." Yes, he doesn't like you. Why? Your results suck and you have no thoughts of improving, just whining.

          You've made maps that are well liked on our server, yet you go out of your way to make YOU, the mapper, look like shit with threads and comments that are immature and come off as being a whiny bitch.

          Grab your balls and man up. There is no one in the world that can create a product that will be a success every single time. When you come across a flop, try finding out why it didn't do well and learn from it for your future products instead of lashing out at people and crying.
          • Agree Agree x 3
          • Like Like x 1
          • Apr 9, 2012
            Posts
            Not sure if you are in the mood to understand or care about what I'm going to say, but you are actually the one person who has been on my mind during the entire process I went throught to come to the point of mapping I have come now, even though I 'hated' you in the older times. I beg you to read on from this point :smile:

            Not sure if you remember our flaming conversation from back in the time, way before I even started SSBB or any of my other maps, but I tried to put you in place and convince everyone of my right for the solution I provided. I was pretty confident back then and I had actually no idea of what I was saying... You told me that everything I did in relation to mapping and modelling was horrible, and I used horrible methods of modelling and mapping (with only using Propper back in the time).

            You may believe it or not, but it's literally your comment - (Propper isn't modelling, it's conversion of brushwork. Saying you aren't good at UVW mapping isn't an excuse to not learn how to make models in a modelling program. You obviously had the initiative to learn how to use hammer, and probably hated a lot of the aspects of it. If you had the initiative to do that, you can also force yourself to learn a modelling program like 3ds max. I hated 3ds max and UVW mapping (and still do), but I forced myself to learn how to do it because it's the right way and the better way.) - that gave me the courage to go throught all of the things I wanted to achieve after all, because as you said, it's much better and gives you the possibility to create whatever you want. I also learned everything for optimization and proper mapping in general, and currently all the knowledge I have gathered up to the point I'm now (modelling, texturing and mapping anything I want with a good idea and the proper way, with the rights basics and knowing a lot of advanced techniques) is literally because of that post back then that made me think about all of this.

            All of this may sound a little out of place here in this post and probably very unexpected, but I never thought you would ever come back to PF and so I never had the chance to say this, but now that you came back I finally can say: Thank you

            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            All of this aside, I can't really add anything useful to this thread. I don't play ZM and I have no awareness of either of the maps, but I hope you can manage to keep them running. It's unfortunate that you don't have a backup though from the vmf's? Anyways good luck, and I hope to see great maps from you in the future if you ever intend to make some again!
            • Like Like x 1
            • Sep 6, 2010
              Posts
              Making a remake map is like doing a cover of a song. The cover is very rarely assumed to be better than the original. And there's quite a bit of speculation when a cover song comes up and similar story to maps. I'd remake a map that's definitely crappy or one that people dislike. For example, those office maps that were removed from rotation or twin steel. But I can see that your maps were done professionally, they look nice and don't cause lag - well optimized. I personally prefer a well lit up maps like not too dark. The other versions of towers and lila panic maps I'd think would go at some point as the original maps are already great. It's hard to make a better map than those because they're already awesome.
              Highlander, May 15, 2013 Last edited by Highlander, May 15, 2013