Hi everyone! I know this will be favored by many and hated by a good portion of the regulars on the server. Why is this map still in rotation? The win rate is 90% Humans to 10% Zombies. Here are the top 10 CT favored maps currently in rotation. 1. zm_london_v1_0 2. zm_base_winter_beta3c 3. zm_novum_v4_sajakfix 4. zm_gorodok_v1 5. zm_forgotten_town 6. zm_roy_highway 7. zm_playtime 8. zm_wtfhax_v6 9. zm_endless_v1_0 10. zm_lila_panic_beach_pf3 Most of the above maps are usually complained about because of how big they are, how many secrets they have or how CT sided they are. With the exception of a few most are generally avoided by our donators/admins when choosing to nominate a map and generally get played when they're the first random nomination. That alone should not be a reason to discard a map from the rotation. The big issue I have with this map is how incredibly boring it gets because of how good a portion of the server has became at bunny hopping. There is already one (or 6 - however you want to count this) illegal spot because of people being able to bhop, run boost, and party fly to each other to spots that are extremely difficult for zombies to get to: But how do these spots get ignored? And some what this one: These are relatively easy spots to get to for anyone who knows basic bunny hopping maneuvers. But once you're being fired at it's pretty hard to go down that stairwell in the first picture and strafe onto the platform. Should players be punished for accumulating the skills that it takes to get there? I'm not sure - but should 95% of the rest of the server be punished by having to wait 3+ minutes for the round to end because they can't get to the 1 or 2 individuals in these spots? This is what happens almost every round. I'm going to rip some quotes from some recent illegal discussion threads: From the unpanic illegal thread: Tony the Tiger - "Bhopping gets the same treatment. It's a very difficult bhop to do. It's possible, but difficult (on ZM at least)" Tony assumed it took a run boost to get to a roof and Haoward proved to him he could bunny hop over there. And then this was a follow up by Tony a few posts later: "If it was a simple bhop, you'd have something here. But it's not. It takes a lot of practice to figure out, and first of all requires you to be able to bhop. Despite Harvey missing the edges of the spot, the edges are still illegal as well as the rest of the spot. It's the same reason we made the spots on endless illegal. it's possible to get to them by bhopping and runboosting, but it's still very difficult for the average player to do." A post by Taters in the same thread: "That was a good jump, but a regular player can't even make it into the fake sign at spawn without a lot of trouble and precise jumping. The spot is dependent on hitting a very precise bhop and even then being able to land the jump, which you just barely did. A good majority of the server can't bhop, so you're basically invincible against anyone that can't do it." A comment by Seeker more or less referencing to the perks a donator gets (higher jump) "But it is unbalanced. That's why we have illegal spots. If a regular player can not make the jump, it will remain illegal." From Momo: "If we simply pandered to the average player, half of every map would likely be illegal. There's certainly something to be said of taking the average player into account, but just as much stock is put into the above average player skill as well." Some good arguments for both sides. Now going over to the Endless illegal spot discussion here are a few more quotes: LC: "Lots of players in pf know how to bhop. Whether they are on at the time of the map or not, we shouldn't say a spot is bad because not everyone can bhop. Learn to bhop. Or use the party system, this works wonders on this map." Badgriuel: "Bhopping should never be a requirement for players to enjoy maps and our servers. Not to mention still a ledge spot." Zenzr: "Sure it does. Is it easy to learn? Sure. But you shouldn't have to know how to bhop just to play. It's an advantage for sure. But not something you should have to know how to do. Its zombiemod. Not bunny hop. You can bunny hop, but its not the original intent of the mod. Its not hard to learn how to do it, but its absolutely unfair for someone else. Just like that fucking run boost shit. It's an exploit of the game physics." Tony the Tiger: "Where i stand on the matter is that bhopping shouldn't be a requirement. Meaning, it shouldn't be all that you can do to get to a spot. If there are alternate ways to get to the spot, then sure. But it shouldn't be a requirement. Which is exactly why on my surf map there is a ZM teleport to take the Zombies who cant surf to crucial parts of the surf area, which they won't have to do any surfing at all if they don't know how to surf. Perhaps Endless needs something like that. Having the knowledge/skill of Bhopping should be rewarding to the human. Meaning, they are required to do it to get to SOME spots in the map, but NOT ALL spots. Then add an alternate route for only Zombies to use that don't know how to bhop. But that's just my suggestion, and was Retslag and many other admins suggestion when i made my surf map." With all of the prior discussion I don't see how these spots aren't considered illegal too. And if they were to become illegal then there isn't much point of this map being on the rotation anymore since there is only a handful of decent spots left.