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Ztele, Zspawn

Discussion in CS:S Zombie Escape started by Joey.rage, Jan 17, 2012

  1. Nov 28, 2011
    I think two things must be put back in place that have been removed.
    The first is !ztele being instant. I understand the point of zombie escape is to escape from zombies, but does that mean zombies are to not even try? Ztele is an effective tool to replace where you spawn, prevent death that SHOULD be preventable, allow you to get unstuck, etc. Now, some of these uses are massively hindered by the 3 seconds.

    Example 1: Let's say I get stuck and need to ztele, no problem right? Wrong. What if the CT's decide to take advantage of me being stuck by getting a few headshots in? Now I'm either so low hp that I'll die very quickly, or I'm dead.

    Example 2: Minecraft - Bow & Arrow - 1 hit kill zombies. Oh no! Well I certainly want to win this, so I'd better !ztele fast! 3...2... dead. The point of being zombie is of course to make it both fun and challenging for Humans to win, and the only foreseeable way to do this is to try to win yourself by tagging as many humans as possible. When you're dead this is obviously very difficult.

    Example 3: Minas Tirith - Spawning: Sometimes spawning as a zombie will put you on the furthest point away from the shop, which can sometimes render your ability of a surprise attack useless because of the long walk to the other side. Sometimes !ztele fixes this by moving you to a different spawn point. With the additional 3 seconds to wait you'll either end up wasting 3 seconds by spawning where you spawned before, or be 3 seconds behind where you could be, which in a fast action game like zombie escape means a lot.

    Now for !zspawn. There's nothing wrong with the command itself, but on some maps it seems to be disabled. This is detrimental to both the fun of the map, and the value of the maps themselves.

    Example 1: Mount Doom. The AFK cleaner doesn't actually happen untill much later into the map, but since !zspawn is disabled from the get-go you see humans just camping and killing zombies, Or not enough zombies spawn to win the game. This basically makes it a human sided run to the finish line race game, which is not why people join ZE in the first place.

    Example 2: Icecap. The AFK cleaner doesn't take place untill the very end of the map when humans nuke. With this in mind late joiners, zombies who die, etc will be unable to do anything but watch the dwindling number of zombies eventually fade away into a fast, albeit uneventful, human win.

    Example 3: Mines of Moria. This map is usually very epic, and often times resulted in very close human wins, Or losses. Now with the zspawn turned off combined with the fact that the AFK cleaner doesn't take place untill much later results in yet again, boring human sided victories that are neither fun to watch nor play in.

    Example 4: Sometimes players Die, Join Late, or for whatever reason can't spawn. This results in them watching a boring Human sided victory in spectate, for well over 5 minutes at a time usually. This is very boring and takes away players. Fast.

    Example 5: Was Zspawn turned off because of crashing issues? Wasn't weapon cleaner put in place to prevent said crashing issues? Weapon cleaner sometimes glitches out map important items such as Ultima on Mako_reactor. To have them both working for the same goal that just one is suitable for seems redundant, waste of space, and ruining of game play. In my personal opinion I think weapon cleaner was very effective, and is better than removing zspawn altogether. I propose we have one or the other, with weapon cleaner being the preferable one to keep.

    These are just some examples of why I think !zspawn should not be disabled, and why !ztele should be instant. I hope that this is clear and easy to read, as I didn't re-read over it.

    Thank you for your time and consideration.
  2. Aug 18, 2006
    The point of !ZTele is to teleport you back to spawn if you are stuck. That is it's intended purpose. That's what it was originally created for. NOTHING ELSE.

    !ZTele was NOT created for this:

    Again, you're not using it for its intended purpose. The delay helps prevent people from abusing it, like in the situations above...

    It's disabled on all the maps with AFK killers. What's the point of spawning in when you're going to be instantly killed? Want it enabled? Don't complain to me, you're going to the wrong person. Complain to the map author if you want that changed.

    All the weapon cleaner does is reduce server-side processing by cleaning up stray weapon entities, which also dramatically reduces the chances of the server crashing due to an Edict allocation buffer overflow (more than 2048 entities being created, causing a server crash in lamen's terms).
  3. Sep 22, 2010
    Your love for ZE I see is undeniable, however, what your asking for is just more PAIN on serverside ends. One thing being, there, with respawn back in, you'd probably have never ending games like what you had in raccoon.

    Having it adjusted to how it is now, fits in with how the game should be played.
  4. Jul 19, 2011
    I tend to see ray as someone who would rather have no abuse than actual *fun* on servers. =/
  5. Jul 4, 2011
    The !ztele command is for people getting stuck/lost, that's it, not a tool to cheat death by teleporting away.

    The AFK cleaner is in place on certain maps because the creator intended it to be played on servers with respawn disabled, enabling would possibly lead to the server crashing and never ending rounds.

    Define "fun".
  6. Aug 18, 2006
    That post makes absolutely no sense... Did you not read anything that I said?

    Sure, I can enable !ZSpawn on maps with AFK killers, but don't come bitching to me when nukes glitch or the server crashes because players are spawning over and over again. In fact, in the end, that change creates more "fun" by preventing that from happening in the first place. And how does a 3 second delay on a command prevent you from having "fun" on the server. I mean come on, seriously?! Think before you speak.

    My job is to make sure that the server is "fun" for everyone, and that's exactly what I'm doing.
  7. Jul 19, 2011
    Incase you couldn't interpret my opinion correctly, i meant that you would rather follow specific rules than bend them a bit in order to aid gameplay. That statement was not strictly for the !ztele issue.

    Tony-dictionary.com. there is nothing confusing about it.
  8. Feb 18, 2011
    Wow this is so not true.
  9. Nov 28, 2011
    I can see this thread is getting far out of hand. Let me get back on topic

    Ztele being used for one purpose , stuck, which I described is still hindered by 3 seconds. Also, coming from someone who plays ZE very often and for a very long time I would like to add that Ztele is a strategic tool that can make zombie game play interesting, dynamic, and very fun. By making it a 3 second unstuck it becomes a mindless run straight towards humans and hope for the best.

    Also why does ztele only allow a maximum of three? what happens if I get stuck on the 4th time? I'm not asking for more zteles, I'm pondering maybe it was intended for a bit more?

    AFK cleaners were intended to kill AFK's. Not to prevent spawners? Not sure about the confusion on that one. Also Kaemon has also confirmed on mount doom that not being able to spawn prevented it from being fun. I'm asking for you to allow us to spawn for the first 25 mins of the map that isn't afk cleaner, and not the last 12 seconds that is. (minor exaggeration on time)
  10. Jul 4, 2011
    Sure it'd be fun with respawn on but the AFK killer would instantly kill anyone trying. If you want things changed I suggest you speak with the map makers themselves.
  11. Nov 28, 2011
    The AFK cleaner doesn't happen untill much later into the map. I don't think mapmakers want to go back and edit their maps they made years ago. You could easily see a difference in the maps before and after zspawn was disabled

    Before: Normal
    After: ZM
  12. Jul 4, 2011
    I see your point. There is a plugin for it on the server which disables respawn if an AFK killer is detected, Ray would need to enable respawn and let the plugin do the work.
  13. Jan 14, 2012
    There sure is: http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=161254

    And the Google Cash version because of the SOPA black out protest : http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:aRnHUe2LbsgJ:forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php%3Ft%3D161254+zr+kill+detector&cd=1&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=nl
  14. Apr 29, 2011
    The using ztele as a strategic tool is not something I have ever seen put into practice on ZE. And how does the 3 second wait mean your only other strategy is a mindless rush? Clever zombies don't rush, they take advantage of the environment. And even if all you could do was mindless rushing, how would instant zteles change that?
  15. Aug 18, 2006
    You don't seem to get it. AFK Cleaners get put at spawn every round at like 20-45 seconds in depending on the map. The AFK Killer is a func_damage entity that damages and kills EVERY player at spawn. It does not matter if you are AFK. If you're in the spawn area, you die. This is why I can't enable !zspawn.

    And I'm sorry, but a 3 second delay on a command many players don't know even use does not fundamentally change gameplay for the worse like you say it does.
  16. Nov 28, 2011
    Ztele allows you to avoid deaths that would otherwise be crippling to your gameplay. I'll give you a great example: Minas Tirith, White Knight, Nuke, Half zombie w/ Flag
    He kills me, now I lost my position, most likely my flag and the possibility of getting anyone for a good 25-45 seconds. This is how ztele is most effectively used IMO.

    Ray my comment was directed at something else, I know that AFK cleaners kill everything. The point I'm trying to make is if someone dies, joins late or for whatever reason is not immediately spawned as either zombie or human, They miss out of 1 round which will probably be 5-6 mins. This happens much more so to zombies on maps with zspawn removed which, as I said prior, leads to boring human sided victories.

    To further my point here, The AFK Cleaners aren't active for a good 30+ seconds in the map, and even on some maps we have disabled don't activate at all but instead has a Nuke etc.
  17. Aug 18, 2006
    Again, what do you expect me to do about that? You're going to the wrong person here. You need to speak to the map authors.
  18. Nov 28, 2011
    Ray, What I'm hoping you'll consider is this: let the plugin Tony / Hekjuh mentioned do the work of fixing zombie spawning, and allow zombie spawn on the Maps it is currently removed. This will make the maps much more enjoyable and not some ZM / spectate other players playing ZM
  19. Aug 18, 2006
    This will change nothing. The end result will be the same. Instead of a map-specific ZR CVar being set to disable respawning, the plugin will do it. Respawn is disabled on every map with the AFK killer.
  20. Nov 28, 2011
    Doesn't the plugin turn off Zspawn AFTER it sees the AFK cleaner go?