General bones to pick

I've been playing on this ZM server for a few months now and recently within the past few weeks, the playing experience on it has gotten quite bad. There are various reasons causing this, starting with the admins.

Now I've been around the block in running game servers, doing it for around 9 years for various games, and I've seen the good, bad and ugly of it all. This server openly advertises that you can pay a monthly subscription fee for admin, which in my opinion is really bad. Since there seems to be absolutely no screening process whatsoever, anyone and their brother can become an admin here which as I've seen has lead to admin abuse on a massive scale and nobody seems to care but me.

An administrators job is to keep order in the server, so far which I have hardly seen any of. Many admins that I've seen on the server openly break rules and get away with it due to people fearing their power to kick or ban. On multiple occasions I've seen admins teleport and noclip to hard or impossible spots to get to with the explanation that "Oh, it's easy to get here" or "I'm too lazy to walk here, I would have gotten here anyway." Other times I've seen them use mani to give themselves restricted weapons like AWPs and auto snipers. I've told some of them to stop and that they were breaking rules, they just told me to "shut up or we'll kick you."

Admins are supposed to be role models to the general player base. With the majority of admins behaving like this, it's no wonder we've been having more and more problems with scummy players coming on and ruining our playing experience. Half is more or less "admin favorites", while the other half is the admins screwing around so much that they don't see the scummy players breaking cades or other general crap that breaks gameplay.

I can understand that the server needs donations to stay afloat, but there are more ways than blatantly advertising admin everywhere. Since the server is pretty popular and gets full for long periods during the day, I think donations can be gotten from reserved slots and just donations in general. In my opinion and experience, administrators should be carefully hand picked by the community and the server owner after observing their behavior for a good period of time beforehand so you know what to expect out of them. Using randomly picked admins on a subscription basis is like playing Russian roulette with a fully loaded six shooter.

Another problem is that there are large portions of the day and night where admins aren't present at all, which leads to the really bad lamers and scum coming in the server and disrupting the game with racial slurs, verbal harassment and other offensive behavior. There should be a range of admins from different regions that can be on in different times of the day, not just a large clump of them on at the same time, they need to be spread out.

Another issue is the stability of the server. I'm pretty well versed in server hardware and networking (from running many over the course of almost a decade) and the server hardware that the ZM server is running on clearly isn't up to snuff for 64 players. To be honest, the Source engine really isn't designed to have 64 players running around on it (there are various reasons, but the biggest is the complete lack of SMP support.) Just recently the server had the slots raised from 56 to 64 players. The server was already having severe stability and lag issues, and with 64 it's just gotten worse. If you really want to have a larger zombie mod server, I recommend splitting it into two servers with a maximum of 42-48 players each. That way if the server has more than one CPU or core, both can be affinitied to one or the other and not fight over processor cycles.

Bad and old maps:

Bad:
zm_lila_panic:

This map is terrible, especially when the server crashes 5 times in a row and you have to play it for 3 hours at a time. The map is too small for the amount of players that this server allows and there are only 3 spots that are really worth going to (which quickly get overcrowded leading to massive zombie rape.) There are more recent and alternate versions of the map, but they're just as bad as the current one, if not worse. I say remove it.

That one entirely made out of cargo crates with the launchers (cant remember name):

I've been a mapper for 12 years, starting way back in Quake. This map is among the most horrible I've seen so far (there are a few that are worse, but that's besides the point) Since Source is a BSP based engine, by using all crates, it throws visibility out the window so every client has to render the entire map at once which leads to abysmally horrid frame rates. I have an 8800GTS G92 and an E8400 and only get a maximum of 23-30 FPS while not looking at the ground. I've heard of people with lower specs than mine complain about the map being unplayable due to frame rates less than 10.

Old:
zm_fortress_b5:
This one has been asked to be updated elsewhere, but I'll post it here too. It's two versions behind the current version. Beta 7 fixes numerous bugs and adds more places to hide and an additional section to the map.

zm_4way_tunnel:
I think the server has version 3, there's a version 4 out that changes things around for the better.

I could go on, but these are the biggest problems I see right now.

Well thought out. Speaking with half my mind. The other half is in my bed.

We really need to crack down on how our admins in-game operate. I've said this numerous times.

On the map note, We have had way too much going on to have any time working on the server. The few things Josh did today were the only things he was able to fix.

We can try working on server stability when we get a chance.

As for said spammers, just grab a few demos or screen shots, and they will be dealt with.

As peter said, a well thought out post. ill leave replies below each section.

I've been playing on this ZM server for a few months now and recently within the past few weeks, the playing experience on it has gotten quite bad. There are various reasons causing this, starting with the admins.

Now I've been around the block in running game servers, doing it for around 9 years for various games, and I've seen the good, bad and ugly of it all. This server openly advertises that you can pay a monthly subscription fee for admin, which in my opinion is really bad. Since there seems to be absolutely no screening process whatsoever, anyone and their brother can become an admin here which as I've seen has lead to admin abuse on a massive scale and nobody seems to care but me.
I don't believe that it has been a massive failure but I agree that the possibility that a admin can abuse is high. Unless we are sent demo's or screen shots of the abuse. There isn't much that we can do. We've weeded out alot of admins in the past that we knew were not going to last. We only openly sell admin because we have to pay the bills. We've tried donations in the past to keep the server afloat but that didn't work so well.. Ill look into a screening process though.

An administrators job is to keep order in the server, so far which I have hardly seen any of. Many admins that I've seen on the server openly break rules and get away with it due to people fearing their power to kick or ban. On multiple occasions I've seen admins teleport and noclip to hard or impossible spots to get to with the explanation that "Oh, it's easy to get here" or "I'm too lazy to walk here, I would have gotten here anyway." Other times I've seen them use mani to give themselves restricted weapons like AWPs and auto snipers. I've told some of them to stop and that they were breaking rules, they just told me to "shut up or we'll kick you."
As I said in the first reply, we need a demo or screen shot. If they are in a impossible spot then screen shot it. If a admin is doing this round after round then I would hope that you would record a demo of them from the round starting to you asking them to stop and them threatening you. As for the giving themselves weapons, I don't want to see this happen alot but some admins do it because they can. I normally only give glocks and scouts away when people ask for weapons(They are the best guns anyways) but I don't want to see admins giving away auto weapons.


Admins are supposed to be role models to the general player base. With the majority of admins behaving like this, it's no wonder we've been having more and more problems with scummy players coming on and ruining our playing experience. Half is more or less "admin favorites", while the other half is the admins screwing around so much that they don't see the scummy players breaking cades or other general crap that breaks gameplay.
I don't take favorites when i'm in game. I've kicked clan members before and people who suck up to admins. I know other admins don't but I can't enforce something w/o names and demo's. I know its not easy to always catch someone in a recording but if you see it going to happen have the recording sitting in console and quickly tab to it and start recording.

I can understand that the server needs donations to stay afloat, but there are more ways than blatantly advertising admin everywhere. Since the server is pretty popular and gets full for long periods during the day, I think donations can be gotten from reserved slots and just donations in general. In my opinion and experience, administrators should be carefully hand picked by the community and the server owner after observing their behavior for a good period of time beforehand so you know what to expect out of them. Using randomly picked admins on a subscription basis is like playing Russian roulette with a fully loaded six shooter.
I'm already working on this. There is going to be a major update to the server within the next few weeks(at most) Reserved slot will be sold*. Ill take a look into setting up a admin purchase process that they must complete before they can purchase admin aswell.

Another problem is that there are large portions of the day and night where admins aren't present at all, which leads to the really bad lamers and scum coming in the server and disrupting the game with racial slurs, verbal harassment and other offensive behavior. There should be a range of admins from different regions that can be on in different times of the day, not just a large clump of them on at the same time, they need to be spread out.
Where's punisher?(He use to play the off hours...) We have a nice gang of admins already. Most of us work(including me) so we are not always able to be on but if you can simply provide a demo or a screen shot of a incident then it will be taken care of. I'm constantly trying to set up more security for the server to catch people when the admins are not online but I have a big list of things to do in game and out of game(I do have a life + girlfriend) believe it or not. Ill see if I can get the security implemented sooner though.
Another issue is the stability of the server. I'm pretty well versed in server hardware and networking (from running many over the course of almost a decade) and the server hardware that the ZM server is running on clearly isn't up to snuff for 64 players. To be honest, the Source engine really isn't designed to have 64 players running around on it (there are various reasons, but the biggest is the complete lack of SMP support.) Just recently the server had the slots raised from 56 to 64 players. The server was already having severe stability and lag issues, and with 64 it's just gotten worse. If you really want to have a larger zombie mod server, I recommend splitting it into two servers with a maximum of 42-48 players each. That way if the server has more than one CPU or core, both can be affinitied to one or the other and not fight over processor cycles.
This will be part of the major update that will be applied soon. I can't give the specifics of what the update will be but it will be big and nice.(not referring to peter's pants) The lag will be cut down and the amount of players PF can hold willl be increased.

Bad and old maps:

Bad:
zm_lila_panic:

This map is terrible, especially when the server crashes 5 times in a row and you have to play it for 3 hours at a time. The map is too small for the amount of players that this server allows and there are only 3 spots that are really worth going to (which quickly get overcrowded leading to massive zombie rape.) There are more recent and alternate versions of the map, but they're just as bad as the current one, if not worse. I say remove it.
The map is a favorite of alot of people and yes I hate it too but it fills the server in seconds when it goes online. I'll change the default map when I get home so it won't auto be placed on this

That one entirely made out of cargo crates with the launchers (cant remember name):

I've been a mapper for 12 years, starting way back in Quake. This map is among the most horrible I've seen so far (there are a few that are worse, but that's besides the point) Since Source is a BSP based engine, by using all crates, it throws visibility out the window so every client has to render the entire map at once which leads to abysmally horrid frame rates. I have an 8800GTS G92 and an E8400 and only get a maximum of 23-30 FPS while not looking at the ground. I've heard of people with lower specs than mine complain about the map being unplayable due to frame rates less than 10.
Twinsteel, The map isn't as bad as you might think it is. The fact is(goes with every map people don't know) They don't explore the map and tr4y different areas. There are roughly 12 spots off the top of my head that people can hold if they get a good group together. It was also a map that has been on the server for a long time so the older admins enjoy it. I guess it is time for it's death though.

Old:
zm_fortress_b5:
This one has been asked to be updated elsewhere, but I'll post it here too. It's two versions behind the current version. Beta 7 fixes numerous bugs and adds more places to hide and an additional section to the map.

zm_4way_tunnel:
I think the server has version 3, there's a version 4 out that changes things around for the better.

Ill update these today/tomorrow

I could go on, but these are the biggest problems I see right now.

Too much to read....

http://plaguefest.com/index.php?s=&sho...ost&p=28700
http://plaguefest.com/index.php?s=&sho...ost&p=28330
http://plaguefest.com/index.php?s=&sho...ost&p=28573

ohh dang.
/offtopic


this was a really well thought out post. . i need to get in the server more often. ive been a forum rat lately. next time im in the server though ill keep an eye on whats going on. even though im not an admin. ill still try to get demo's or at least SS's of everything.

hey josh/gang is there anyway i can keep a log of what is going on in console? and have it export itself to my computer? so i can have those kind of logs too? or no?

Oh snap, owned...
Any who square box has some points yet other points are fantasy at its best. 24/7 watching of serv LOL will never happen. People sleep, eat, work, and crazy enough have friends out of game. Tons more to say but I am typin this out on a phone, just isn't worth it.

1. You have no room to talk. I'm about ready to delete every single post you've made.
2. Merge is actually one of our best server administrators.
I've never witnessed any abuse coming from him in his whole year stay here.
So please, do not call out our admins or I'm opening the flood gates.

If you don't have anything nice to say in any of your posts from hereon out, I'm putting my own little modification into them until I notice a change.

Brownie, I'm not sure. I think your best bet is to open console, copy/paste and that's it.

Thank you peter.... apology will be accepted..

鳥の歌 I love playing with you. Josh, you, and a few select others are the only ones who know as much, if not more about the maps we play on as me lol. I agree with most of what you say the only thing is i don't hear any of these complaints when were in game (whether it be your not making them or im just deaf). I hope all you cualms can be resolved, you are one of the better players i really want to keep you happy.

oh okay thank you Peter.

Thanks for pointing out all the fun i have had on the forums

EVERYONE BACK ON TOPIC NOW PLEASE!!!!!

you know its true that admins should be watching the server (i usually do), but its not our job to take care of every little complain when there is 60 players on the server and there is only 3 admins on. u know people have different points of view for every situation. when there is someone talking too much some people enjoy it but there are others that doesnt, we admins have to pick a side and no matter what we do we always end up being criticized. other times people complain of other blocking or breaking cades but we are not some kind of robot that automatically knows where the problem is taking place. in my case when ii heard people complaining i keep an eye on the player but u know sometimes it might be a mistake that they broke the cade or something (it happened to me sometimes) but i dont think we have to punish those players. also u know that when there is 60 people playing and every spot in the map is filled with 10 people then its hard to make cades because like i said before people have different view. some people may think that building the cade a certain way its better but other may not agree. and i dont think we are suppose to punish all those people we would end up losing half the server in a round. by the way it would be great if you could maybe post the list of admins that you think are abusing just so we can keep an eye or something (i dont know if this is a good idea) or pm me cuz if players complain the server its losing its quality and greatness(dont know if thats a word) i guess we admins are the ones that should try and fix it

not to mention in those links, merge's posts are topic related.

I haven't made any demos or publicly spoke about it before now because I feared retribution from admins in-game. They already threatened kicking for saying anything about it, which is why I haven't recorded any demos. I made this thread to see the reaction of the owner / community on this topic before I started making such things because I wanted to see the reaction. I've been in and left other communities due to the childish reactions they've had when this kind of stuff was exposed. I'm honestly surprised at the outcome and have gained much respect for this community in handling this in a professional manner.

If you need any help maintaining the server, I offer it, but it's up to you to decide if you need it or not.

You know I'm already doing that, I just haven't told anyone but you about it. But as a general hint, it's something to do with zm_wtfhax for everyone that doesn't know.

I didn't mean 24/7 watching the server, but having more times of day when admins are on. In the early morning and late at night there are hardly any admins on, which is when the crap happens. The server is located in Dallas (I'm pretty sure) and the world has many time zones so it is entirely possible to get people on from different regions. 3 AM here is 8-10 AM in Europe, and I know plenty of early birds over there that like playing Zombie mod.

Like I said, I don't speak out much about due to the fear of retribution. I've had it happen in the past and it's a highly irritating situation fighting a bureaucracy on a 45 degree slope upwards. In my experience openly antagonizing admins on their home ground will just make things worse without first getting to the root of the problem.

Don't be afraid. I'm on your side. If anyone does anything to endanger you, give me your steamid, their name and their steamid, and I'll make sure it gets taken care of.

The reason there is a mature response on here is most of the admins in this server are 20 or older so i think most of us are willing to talk things out if you have a problem. Also hurry up with the wtf_hax remake its one of my favorite maps and i would like to see what youve done with it

lololololol.
oh and... e-fight yay!
that's a shitload to read man. cereally.
good stuff though.

I'm 18.